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Let's stop arguing and do something. (lemmy.world)
submitted 1 year ago by to c/politicalmemes@lemmy.world
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essentially an enormous part of the reason that online leftist spaces suck so much is that they are filled with people who believe it is more important to do nothing wrong than it is to do something right
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[–] 5 points 1 year ago (44 children)

I believe it's actually the opposite. So many extremists or "I don’t agree with you therefore you’re a troll" bullshit.

You get censored and banned for pretty much anything. Lemmy is no exception and pretty obviously like that.

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  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago (38 children)

    You get censored and banned for pretty much anything. Lemmy is no exception and pretty obviously like that.

    Seeing as I have not been banned for anything I have to disagree.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    It depends on the instance and mods I think. I got a temp ban from an instance just citing "bad faith" for asking if there was a source article and getting flamed for "standing in the way of the movement". I accept that the Libre/FOSS space trends towards more niche user bases, and Lemmy is infinitely better than any other alternatives, but sometimes it feels a bit to close to Emo Phillips "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912".

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    It depends on the instance and mods I think

    Of course it does. Anyone can start their own instance, if there is an issue it is a problem with that instance, not Lemmy as a whole.

    The Internet is not obsessed with speed running just because there exists websites on it obsessed with speed running.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    Very true, and everyone should keep that in mind. It's also true that there is an outsized visibility and impact that instances like ML and hexbear have on the zeitgeist/perception of the platform. It doesn't help that the creators are ML.

    The Internet is not obsessed with speed running just because there exists websites on it obsessed with speed running.

    The Internet also sends greeting cards and is used for business/stock market trading, but everyone knows that the Internet is FOR porn.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    It really depends on the community and the mods awake at the time.

    One of my accounts got a week ban from a larger community for being "accusatory". Because I said someone sounded like they were spreading misinformation.

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  • [–] -2 points 1 year ago* (33 children)

    Depends on the things you say, where…

    If you’re generally leftist, you should mostly be fine.

    Otherwise you get banned for trolling (because ofc they’re right so you’re trolling) or transphobia, because if you don’t agree with everything a trans person says, you’re transphobic. Also, the world belongs to them.

    Talk about lesser known subjects by the public or make a mistake yourself? Thats it, you’re banned for misinformation and trolling. Or being a nazi or racist or whatever. The words don’t have a meaning anymore

    Also the random ban reasons like "Rule 3" which refers to the most open and subjective rules like "Be civil" or "Dont be a dick" or similar

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (8 children)

    Depends on the things you say

    So not "pretty much anything" then.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    I thought it was obvious that it was an exaggeration. If you go out of the normal way, according to the mods, well you’re fucked

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (6 children)

    Well we're disagreeing right now, so logically only one of us can be "the normal way" yet neither of us are banned...

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  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago* (5 children)

    I financially frauded once. I’ve never been penalized for it. That must mean the government is fine with it.

    I insulted someone in a game and never got penalized for it, so it must mean the moderators in that game are okay with it.

    It’s the same kind of logic, no?

    That’s the kind of things that happens. Else I guess I hallucinated a couple times in a row, or I mod removed my posts and banned my account by myself. Must be what happened.

    Either everything is moderated and censored, or nothing. No in between can exist.

    Seriously, come on, that’s not how it works and you know it as much as me.

    And fortunately there are still mods that let you speak, people that don’t report you… but what I describe will end up happening if you have these kind of behaviors or point of view.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Either everything is moderated and censored, or nothing. No in between can exist.

    That is the argument you were presenting, yes. I'm glad we agree that that is absurd.

    but what I describe will end up happening

    Nevermind, here you are making the statement you just argued against.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (3 children)

    Nevermind, here you are making the statement you justargued against.

    I didn’t. At this point just throw this in ChatGPT or any good LLM so you can understand what I meant

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    ChatGPT says any bans you received were justified, and while you like to feign innocence any reasonable person who saw the posts in question would agree with you getting moderated.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (20 children)

    Sounds like a lot of generalizing. Probably deserved your ban to be honest.

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  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago (19 children)

    Believe whatever you want. I’m saying that based on my experience.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (18 children)

    Yeah, and you made a pretty blanket statement about all trans people, or ig all trans people on Lemmy, based on your experience with like, a handful of people?

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (17 children)

    If you want an example, I said trans athletes being in man or women categories is a debate and shouldn’t be allowed by default because of inequalities between the individuals, and true equality can never be reached.

    I believe the use of "biological men" trigged them when I said that transgender women were that… when I was talking about scientific stuff to make my point.

    Super transphobic, watch out! ☢️ -_-

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (12 children)

    man or women categories is a debate and shouldn’t be allowed by default because of inequalities between the individuals, and true equality can never be reached.

    Studies have found the only Olympic events in which trans women might have an advantage over cis women is mid range sprints. There has been no advantage shown in the short or long sprint events nor any other categories.

    If you want to talk about equality in sports the biggest inequality that affects outcomes is money. Athletes with more money poured into them for training and equipment have a significant advantage over other athletes.

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  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago* (11 children)

    Studies did not find that there’s a lack of advantage as well, therefore why use it as a point? What I meant is that there’s place for a debate on this question.

    There has been no advantage shown in the short or long sprint events nor any other categories.

    I’ll have to disagree with you on this. Based on my research I did not find conclusive evidence on this. A sample size inferior to thousands is not sufficient to test anyways.

    Athletes with more money poured into them for training and equipment have a significant advantage over other athletes.

    That’s a well known problem. Sadly, not much we can do to fix it without creating other problems. We’re all unequal on this :(

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (10 children)

    I’ll have to disagree with you on this. Based on my research I did not find conclusive evidence on this.

    Well based on my research if we stop arguing about trans people in sports and just let people play (because sports don't actually matter) everyone on earth will become billionaires!

    It's easy to say things, I really do not care what some rando on the Internet came up with by "doing their own research" unless they have receipts. That's how we got anti-vaxxers and flat earthers.

    That’s a well known problem. Sadly, not much we can do to fix it without creating other problems

    So we know this is a problem but fixing it isn't important. Trans people in sports we don't know is a problem, trying to "fix" it is creating other problems, so why is that more important to focus on?

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago* (9 children)

    I really do not care what some rando on the Internet came up with by "doing their own research" unless they have receipts

    I hope you’re aware this applies to you as well

    I don’t want to take the time to prove you my research and shit. Maybe someone will take the time to do it, and props to them.

    That's how we got anti-vaxxers and flat earthers.

    Blindly repeating the opinion of the majority on a same platform is also a great way to spread misinformation. I’m simply giving my opinion in hopes of creating doubt in people's mind so that they fact check it and get the truth. Most people stating things aren’t giving out the sources like that, and asking for it each time the facts are different is a great way to prevent those people from speaking at all.

    Barely anyone check, so if a thread is full of people saying the same thing, one will assume it’s the truth but it might not be

    So we know this is a problem but fixing it isn't important. Trans people in sports we don't know is a problem, trying to "fix" it is creating other problems, so why is that more important to focus on?

    You’re going off topic here

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    I don’t want to take the time to prove you my research and shit

    Of course. "I've done my own research and come to a conclusion that contradicts Science. No, I will not share any of it, just trust that I am right and scientists are wrong." You know you are unable to defend your "conclusion" because you have nothing to back it up.

    Barely anyone check, so if a thread is full of people saying the same thing, one will assume it’s the truth but it might not be

    Which is exactly why I'm calling out your claims.

    You’re going off topic here

    No, this is very much on topic. You've claimed that you've received bans for no reason, for simply saying it's important to keep an open mind about banning trans people in sports. It took very little time to reach the obvious conclusion that you don't care about inequality in sports or you'd be concerned about the inequality money provides (you don't), and you don't care about how many other problems trying to fix that would create because trying to fix the issue of trans people in sports (who don't have an outsized advantage) creates significantly more problems, especially to a marginalized group of people (although as always it also overflows into cis people who don't properly fit into the cookie cutter mold).

    You're trying to claim you're Just Asking Questions, but it takes very little time interacting with you for your views to become abundantly clear. You are not nearly as clever or subtle as you think.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago* (2 children)

    conclusion that contradicts Science

    What science? You’ve not given any source to back your claims. Science does NOT say that transgender women athletes and cisgender women athletes are equal.

    you don't care about inequality in sports or you'd be concerned about the inequality money provides

    How the fuck is this related? Rules can be decided easily, but making it so that each person has equal chance to get money is impossible and out of the question anyways. If you want to, then yea it changes the outcome, but we’re not fucking talking about all inequalities that exist else we wouldn’t stop talking. I’m focusing on a specific angle that has a high impact on the subject and that we can actually have an impact on.

    (who don't have an outsized advantage)

    If you want to play this game then sure. Your conclusion contradicts science. If you don’t provide sufficient proof then you’re lying just like me I guess

    You're trying to claim you're Just Asking Questions, but it takes very little time interacting with you for your views to become abundantly clear. You are not nearly as clever or subtle as you think.

    You’re acting like a SJW and a science guy but you’re just pushing your own opinion without providing any proof and just spreading lies like "science says this" when it doesn’t.

    You’re not defending anything but idiocy

    I’m done talking with you. I’ve lost enough time to an hypocritical liar. There’s no crowd and this is going nowhere. We’re just both losing our time.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    They're not going off topic, they're leading you to water, but you're refusing to drink. Because you're not actually a trans ally, you have your malformed opinions and refuse to change them.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (3 children)

    You’re right. Let's do value judgment and not stick to facts. That’s how you get the truth.

    You’re being manichean, proving my point. I’m not either with or against you. I don’t have to agree to everything you believe and not actively fighting for more or different trans rights (if this even falls in this category) does not make me transphobic. You’re delusional.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    The thing that made you transphobic was generalizing a group of trans people based on your interactions with individuals.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago* (1 child)

    Isn’t that the same thing that made you give me the transphobic tag? Because you seem to be making your own definition of what’s transphobia

    What’s wrong with saying "people on X instance act like dumbasses" when they prove you right every time? It’s transphobic to point out my own experiences? Thus I guess saying that hexbear is full of genocide denying is discriminatory and same for saying republicans tend to be xenophobic fascists?

    When you get a good enough sample, associating something with a population is not wrong unless something proves it wrong. The likeliness of it being true is high. And even then, when the fuck did I say something about transgenders? When did I accuse them of anything? I’ve said that censorship around this issue is high and most defenders of the cause I’m opening a debate about are super entitled, censor things and flat out lie. If you believe only trangenders support this transgender athletes not being regulated and always being authorized then you’re transphobic according to your own words

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Why would I care about what you said to invite derision? The problem, currently, is your attempted usage of derision to discredit an entire group of marginalized people based on your EXTREMELY LIMITED and STATISTICALLY IRRELEVANT experiences.

    Boohoo the trans people in the trans community disagreed with me about trans issues and the trans people called me transphobic because I have controversial opinions that I chose to share.

    Get over it. Honestly, get over yourself. Grow up.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)

    I’m not discrediting a group or marginalized people haha, I’m discrediting a stupid misinformation and censorship reason

    EXTREMELY LIMITED and STATISTICALLY IRRELEVANT experiences.

    Surely you’re all professional athletes here. And wtf are you talking about? I’m talking about the studies and researches I’ve done, not things I’ve experienced. You’re just lying.

    Then you proceed to do some mocking because your post was pretty much empty of any thing so might as well continue

    Get over it. Honestly, get over yourself. Grow up.

    I feel you’re the one getting triggered here. This makes it funnier when you see this totally applies to you

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    🙏😭 here buddy I'll slow it down for you

    "I'm not discrediting a group of marginalized people": yes you are! You came on here and made sweeping statements about the trans communities on lemmy based on your limited interactions. That's what I'm referring to!

    "Surely you're all professional blahblah": stopped listening because!! That's!! Not!! What!! I!! Am!! Arguing!! Man! Reading comprehension, buddy. Your PERSONAL, ANECDOTAL EXPERIENCES WITH INDIVIDUAL TRANS PEOPLE IS EXTREMELY LIMITED AND STATISTICALLY IRRELEVANT, AND THEREFORE YOU CANNOT MAKE A SWEEPING JUDGEMENT STATEMENT ABOUT THE ENTIRE GROUP. There ya go, did the big letters help you figure it out?

    Anyway, you seem really interested in continuing this argument (the trans athlete argument I never commented on a single time)! Almost like you have an agenda.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    You came on here and made sweeping statements about the trans communities on lemmy based on your limited interactions. That's what I'm referring to!

    Now you’re just hallucinating things. You made this up. I’m not against transgenders at all.

    Well anyways your comment speaks of your insanity by itself so there’s no need to continue further

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    I've said some vile, fucked up shit while I'm having a bipolar depressive episode, but I have yet to get modded for a single thing.

    You can basically say whatever the fuck you want, like 4chan. But unlike 4chan, Lemmy hasn't yet devolved into a cesspool of hate and bigotry. Probably only 'cause the average troll is too stupid to figure out how federation works.

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