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Google will block sideloading of unverified Android apps starting next year (arstechnica.com)
submitted 1 year ago by to c/technology@lemmy.world
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[–] 366 points 1 year ago (27 children)

Google getting rid of all the things that made people want an android phone over an iPhone.

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  • [–] [S] 145 points 1 year ago (19 children)

    Yep, if this happens there is no benefit to android.

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  • [–] 48 points 1 year ago* (6 children)

    I mean, there is still UI/UX, app store policies, and general cost/options.

    This definitely makes Android a lot less appealing. But it is also questionable to act like the biggest reason to use android was sideloading apps since the vast majority of users don't even know that is an option (and probably shouldn't since they have no understanding of how to vet them). Especially since Apple isn't any better (?).

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  • [–] 64 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Comrade, the ignorance of the masses should not dilute our anger

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago

    So... "the ignorance of the masses" should be combatted by willful ignorance and nonsense that falls apart the moment anyone looks at it?

    Get angry. I sure am. Look for alternatives. Graphene sure ain't it but I hope it will be in the next four or five years. But this is something google are willing to futz with for a reason: The vast majority of users don't care about it and even with the changes it isn't significantly worse than the competition.

    Yet everywhere I see "Well, I guess I have to buy Apple now" which is just... buy it if you want to but don't pretend this shit is why.

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  • [–] 17 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Ui/ux is honestly worse on android compared to something like ios. The playstore is honestly stuffed with ads and seems to be actively regressing in ux (the update apps menu is hidden behind like 3 layers of dialogues). Cost wise a used iPhone is probably a better deal than a cheap new android phone.

    I used android primarily because I could install apps Apple basically doesn't care about (and after the 5th time gba4ios broke).

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Maybe it's because I'm used to android, but iOS feels user hostile in ways that android never has been, especially when it comes to storage management and pushing iCloud subscriptions.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Well android phones dont have removable sd card slots anymore, the only way to transfer files is over the weird protocol that's slower than directly writing to disk, if you use pixel or Samsung youre already inundated with annoying ads. The ecosystem is pretty awful now. Installing a custom rom is a good idea, but depending youre phone model it could be a step down and if your on any Samsung phone with knox it basically irreparably damages some attestation fuse. Apple ain't much better. I might try a Linux phone next.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago

    There is a lot wrong with android, but it's super easy to transfer files over USB or just download them. I use Nextcloud personally. Then you can manipulate them with your choice of file manager.

    I got a new phone recently, Samsung with Knox, the worst part about it so far compared to other Android has been how it is quick to kill background apps, and the UI is honestly disorienting compared to how I'm used to doing things. I haven't been shown ads yet, but I did go ahead and disable all the Samsung apps I could find. This includes not being able to control how quickly it kills background apps, but it's the lesser of two evils.

    I'm not sure what Knox attestation is, but it sounds really unfortunate, and I want to search it now. I agree the phones of today are awful and the only reason I got this one was the price.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (11 children)

    It's still a step up from iOS, which has had similar restrictions since they started.

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  • [–] 21 points 1 year ago (9 children)

    Apple allows sideloading (somewhat), this is would be demonstrably worse (if enacted)

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  • [–] 16 points 1 year ago (8 children)

    somewhat

    Yes. Only in the EU and only since 2024 when Apple was forced to do it by new laws. It's reasonable to assume Google would be subject to the same laws.

    If you live outside if the EU, it's "no sideload for you!" There are computer programs that can do sideloading to iPhones, but they have limitations, like having to refresh the sideloaded apps every seven days.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago* (7 children)

    Wholly incorrect. You’re allowed to sideload up to 3 apps (or 10 appIDs, whichever comes first) without being a developer, and that arbitrary restriction is removed if you pay for a dev license, regardless of which part of the world you’re in.

    In the EU you’re allowed to install third party app stores (still have to be notarized by Apple) which isn’t sideloading

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago* (6 children)

    The limitations depend on which program you're using - there's more than one - which is why I only gave a simple example. And if you have to pay for a function that is otherwise free to many others, that's a limitation.

    Side loading is installing an app from anywhere but the official store. So by definition "third party" is side loading. Whether it's another store or authorised is irrelevant.

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  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago* (5 children)

    The limitations depend on which program you’re using - there’s more than one - which is why I only gave a simple example.

    No it doesn’t. It’s in all the documentation, official and otherwise

    Side loading is installing an app from anywhere but the official store. So by definition “third party” is side loading. Whether it’s another store or authorised is irrelevant.

    You can’t just make up a definition, believe it, and then share it like it’s true. We’re going by the legal definition as that’s the only one that matters.

    Apple only allows up to 3 apps or 10 appIDs to be sideloaded, wherever you are in the world. Period.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Youre not getting it. The developers of the tools can and do impose their own additional limitations. They're still limitations of the programs which is what we were taking about.

    And it doesn't matter what limitations Apple imposes in its walled garden, their phones can still be jail broken and side loaded in the more traditional way.

    The concept of sideloading is a general term that applies to multiple platforms, not something Apple owns or gets to dictate. No one is making up anything here.

    https://www.twingate.com/blog/glossary/side-loading

    Sideloading is the process of installing applications on a device from sources other than the official app stores.

    https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/sideload

    the practice of putting software on a computer or mobile phone, without using the official way of buying the software

    https://zimperium.com/glossary/sideloading

    Sideloading is the practice of installing mobile apps on a device that are not from the official app stores

    Etc.

    If your argument requires cherry picking, ignoring key points, and baseless ad homenims, it's not a good point.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

    I said Apple allows sideloading, you tried to correct me, and then changed your argument when you realized you were wrong. It’s just you not getting it.

    Your “tools” that bypass the limitations set by apple wouldn’t even be relevant if they were real since you’re arguing with the factual statement that Apple allows you to sideload your apps, regardless of where you are in the world.

    P.S. Even your links prove that you’re wrong about sideloading. Unless you’re now trying to argue there’s nothing official about governmentally mandated Apple-certified App Stores, in which case… just walk

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

    Apple allows you to sideload your apps, regardless of where you are in the world.

    No, Apple doesn't generally allow you to sideload apps outside of the EU.

    https://www.perplexity.ai/search/does-apple-officially-allow-si-TH8GECqoR4CqgzWD8uH6TQ (Note that Perplexity cites sources)

    Apple officially allows sideloading of apps on iPhones only for users based in the European Union due to the EU Digital Markets Act (DMA) which mandates this starting in 2024. For users outside the EU, Apple does not officially allow sideloading.

    If Apple officially allows sideloading outside of the EU, please show us the specific pages where Apple states you can sideload any app and the steps to do it? If you're right, I'll happily spin on a dime and support you and admit my mea culpa. I have no horse in this race, and I'll be happy to learn something new. People think admitting they're wrong is a weakness, when it's actually a strength.

    I said Apple allows sideloading, you tried to correct me…

    I didn't try to correct you because nothing you wrote was wrong. All I did was try to add information to clarify to other readers what "somewhat" actually means so they have an idea what they might be getting into if they wanted to do it. You know, provide simple helpful extra information, so people don't waste their time trying to find a feature they don't have if they live outside the EU for example. You even agreed that there are limitations, and that people would have to fork out money to overcome some of them.

    But if someone correcting you seems to upset to the point where you come out swinging a baseball bat over a trivial matter, maybe the internet isn't the place for you just now.

    … then changed your argument when you realized you were wrong

    I have no idea what you're referring to here. So being vague again weakens your argument.

    Your “tools” that bypass the limitations set by apple wouldn’t even be relevant if they were real…

    You seem to be stuck on this idea of Apple setting limitations. I said from the start there were limitations.

    The tools are very real:

    Even your links prove that you’re wrong about sideloading…

    Again, you didn't cite anything specific here in what I linked to. The definitions clearly supported that I wasn't making anything up as you claimed. And all you did was repeat your claim which I've already addressed. You didn't respond to my actual counterpoint or add any additional information. So again, this was vague and pointless.

    Ok, this is getting ridiculous. You keep stating incorrect information, you're relying on cherry picking, you've stooped to using yet another ad hominin weakening you argument, and you're getting repetitive and vaguer with each new comment.

    I've posted plenty of links to show the reality and limitations I originally mentioned, so people can read them and make up there own minds.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago* (1 child)

    If sideloading wasn’t allowed, there would be no apps on the App Store If you read the links your AI provided you, you’d see they’re all confirming what I said. All of them.

    Generally, common knowledge doesn’t need to be cited, so here:

    https://developer.apple.com/support/compare-memberships/

    https://developer.apple.com/support/dma-and-apps-in-the-eu/

    https://developer.apple.com/documentation/devicemanagement/

    Also, you should probably learn what Ad Homenim is before trying to use it in a sentence https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

    The fact is, and will always be, that Apple allows sideloading on all iphones in all regions, and their limits apply even in the EU. I’m sorry if you feel like that’s a personal attack.

    And to finally, to address your attempt at changing subject (because you stopped being vague and finally admitted it), Jailbreaking is not within Apples rules (the hint is in the name). Hope this helps!

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago

    Man, did you even read the originally posted article? Did you understand it? Do you even know what sort of sideloading everyone is talking about here? Because it's sure as hell is not app development deployment. Google isn't going to ban that! And users aren't going to fire up Xcode, unpack an app IPA binary, modify the bundle configuration, and sign it using their ID so it'll run on their phone for just seven days. That takes developer-level skill which you said wasn't necessary. Or they could instead use one of the tools I listed, but you didn't even think they were real.

    And none of the pages you linked to refer to "sideloading" except to say people can do it in the EU. Again, proving my point.

    Plus I've already covered your whole argument here in my last comment. Did you read this link? If you did, you would have realized your argument was irrelevant and pointless.

    https://www.perplexity.ai/search/for-people-living-outside-the-ycCBdGnMTbmpH1.Triir6Q

    Also, you should probably learn what Ad Homenim is…

    It appears you don't understand what an ad homenim is, because I laid it out for you. When you say someone is making something up or something isn't real, rather than actually addressing the merits of their arguments, that's text book ad hominem.

    https://www.perplexity.ai/search/is-accusing-someone-of-making-7lw2w1xhQJyAtXtYuR3HTQ

    Jailbreaking is not within Apples rules (the hint is in the name)

    I never said it was. In fact, my first comment stated "…there are computer programs…," and I've mentioned "tools" generally. Why would those phrases not include jail breaking programs and tools?

    And of course it's not allowed by Apple. That was my point. If you live outside the EU and you want to sideload apps generally as a user, you have to use a tool like those I listed, which obviously includes the option of jail breaking.

    So you're just reinforcing my point for me, like you've done multiple times already.

    Yet again, you ignored nearly all of my key points, you added more misinformation and vagueness, you don't appear to understand what it is we're actually talking about, and you don't understand the skill level or tools required for what you're suggesting. So like I've mentioned, this could be a great learning experience for you with a bit of self-respect, but instead you prefer to keep highlighting your ignorance and misunderstanding. You might be fine with that despite the obvious downsides, in which case more power to you.

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  • [–] 25 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Linux phones are moving fast but it feels like Android is moving faster on the other direction 😥

    (Yes I know Android is built over Linux, I mean more traditional and open distros like postmarketos)

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  • [+] 13 points 1 year ago (3 children)
    [deleted]
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