top 99 comments

sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] 75 points 6 months ago (64 children)

I've worked back to back 60's at Amazon, what the hell do you think made me a communist?

  • source
  • hideshow 64 child comments
  • [–] 15 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    Sounds like you just dont want to work. You know when I was your age...

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago

    Boomers are like: "when I was your age I worked 40 hours a week while going to college" and don't say they did their homework at work and got paid for it because there were no security cameras and could pay their yearly tuition and rent with a full time job at a gas station.

  • source
  • parent
  • [+] -29 points 6 months ago (60 children)
  • [–] 24 points 6 months ago* (59 children)

    No, that's what had made me a liberal before lol.

    It's very funny to blame "communist propaganda" when all my schooling was from a capitalist perspective. I never even knew what communism was until I searched for alternatives because of being dissatisfied with the existing system.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 59 child comments
  • [–] 5 points 6 months ago

    Heh I was a teenage Ayn Rand fan.

    It was working minimum wage jobs while studying economics that made me a communist. Because the math of the myths of capitalism doesn't work.

    It's one reason I laugh whenever some libertarian tells me I need to learn basic econ - because buddy, I learned basic, advanced, and I usually know your theory better than you do. It's why I know it's dogshit.

  • source
  • parent
  • [+] -24 points 6 months ago (57 children)

    If you think communism is a solution to your problems, you're dead wrong. You've been told things you wanted to hear, not the truth how communist state looks like in real life.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 57 child comments
  • [–] 22 points 6 months ago (49 children)

    "Been told" lol. I'm reminded of back in high school when I told my parents I thought gay people should have rights and they responded "who's putting these crazy ideas into your head?" It is, in fact, possible for me to come to conclusions on my own.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 49 child comments
  • [+] -20 points 6 months ago (48 children)

    I remember my father telling me how he miraculously managed to get permit to leave the country in the 80s to work in capitalist Europe. He returned with insane fortune of like, $500, which he later spent on paying off mortgage when system fell apart in the 90s.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 48 child comments
  • [–] 8 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    So he spent all of it on the failings of capitalism in the 90s?

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] -5 points 6 months ago

    Transformation just uncovered all the lies and sins of previous communist system. Once state run enterprises were allowed to file banktruptcy 30% of them failed immediately. Country was also hit by hyperinflation like a hammer because previous system was printing money like crazy and "fixing" it by price controls and food rationing.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 14 points 6 months ago* (37 children)

    It's tragic that your family had to spend that money on a mortgage because the state that provided free (or heavily subsidized) housing collapsed. Fucking capitalism, amirite?

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 37 child comments
  • [+] -6 points 6 months ago (36 children)

    state that provided free (or heavily subsidized) housing

    You weren't getting any housing in that system. You could enlist in a queue and wait for 20-30 years to get piss poor commie block apartment. My father was one of very few people who were just well enough for building a house. He was struggling with money, rationing of materials, corruption and poor quality of work, while our family of four lived in 20m2 apartment like animals in stables.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 36 child comments
  • [–] 4 points 6 months ago

    to get piss poor commie block apartment

    Funny enough, I recently bought a house for relatives in Belgrade.

    Like East Germany, the most desirable buildings currently are those commie block apartments (known in Yugoslavia as "army buildings"). Because they were built well and to be used, not just as cheaply as possible to make the quick buck.

    while our family of four lived in 20m2 apartment like animals in stables.

    How many square meters do you think the vast population of working homeless in the US (ostensibly the richest capitalist country) have?

    Or do you want to discuss the current homeownership rate in China?

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 3 points 6 months ago (34 children)

    Oh no, the free housing isn't fast enough or big enough, oh no, it looks so drab oh no

    What did capitalism do for you? How long do you have to wait now to spend 3% of your income on housing instead of 30%+?

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 34 child comments
  • [–] -2 points 6 months ago* (33 children)

    I like how you completely disregarded an account by someone who actually lived under the system you're shlupping and immediatley attacked his character. Kinda like how christians react when you tell them Jesus wasn't real, or Ivermectin won't stop covid.
    Just remarkable similarity.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 33 child comments
  • [–] 5 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (32 children)

    Weird, I actually live in the system I want to change, but I guess my experiences don't mean anything, and I should just listen to some random internet stranger about it.

    Some of us base our opinions on facts and reason. Is there any actual source on "having to wait 20-30 years for a house?" Or am I just expected to accept that claim completely uncritically?

    I can't help but notice how negative claims about communist societies are placed in this special category where expressing any sort of skepticism about them is seen as somehow morally wrong. It reminds me a lot of how questioning the religion I was raised with was seen as wrong, demonstrating a lack of faith. I'm sorry that I don't have enough blind faith in capitalism for you and keep blaspheming against your dogma.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 32 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (25 children)

    Weird, I actually live in the system I want to change, but I guess my experiences don’t mean anything, and I should just listen to some random internet stranger about it.

    I'm sure you wouldn't want someone to completely disregard your experiences out of hand, correct? Like how you just did to u/BlackLazor. I would hope you wouldn't want someone to do the same to you.

    Some of us base our opinions on facts and reason. Is there any actual source on “having to wait 20-30 years for a house?” Or am I just expected to accept that claim completely uncritically?

    According to Quora the wait time was around 10 years. This person also says a family of four in a very tiny space (less than 20 sqm) was the norm. That account is pretty extensive, with contemporary illustrations to help you understand.

    Russia Beyond says the wait time was 6-7 years. Apparently you couldn't apply for an apartment if your current living situation was any better than a broom closet (must be less than 9 sqm per person.) This source also says that Public sector employees (doctors, teachers, etc) had a wait time of 10 or more years. Apparently one could buy an apartment for 10,000 rubles, while the average salary was 150-200 rubles, so about ten times the monthly salary.

    Looking at all this, it seems to me what u/Blacklazor said was not incorrect. It may be exaggerated, but the sources say most people lived in cramped apartments with too many people per sqm, were waiting "More than 10 years" to upgrade, and didnt' get to specify which apartment one was given, or where it was located. So far the account checks out.

    You know, there really does seem to be a lot of info out there about housing in the USSR, if you're truly serious about wanting to know and not just virtue signaling I'd reccomend doing some googles and actually reading about it. Not being facetious, it's pretty interesting.

    I can’t help but notice how negative claims about communist societies are placed in this special category where expressing any sort of skepticism about them is seen as somehow morally wrong. It reminds me a lot of how questioning the religion I was raised with was seen as wrong, demonstrating a lack of faith. I’m sorry that I don’t have enough blind faith in capitalism for you and keep blaspheming against your dogma.

    Nobody said you were morally wrong. What I did say is that you had the same kind of reaction against u/Blacklazor that a religious person does when confronted with questions of faith, because you did. You completely disregarded the account and made zero effort to assess or examine your own position.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 25 child comments
  • [–] 3 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (24 children)

    I’m sure you wouldn’t want someone to completely disregard your experiences out of hand, correct? Like how you just did to u/BlackLazor.

    Just like they did to me, when they said the only thing that drew me to communism was "propaganda" as opposed to my time working under capitalism. The difference is that I discounted their unsubstantiated claims about statistical facts while they discounted my own journey.

    According to Quora

    According to Quora? Great, so now we have two internet randos saying something.

    the wait time was around 10 years

    Which is significantly less than what they claimed. So the two internet randos can't even agree. In that case, which of them should I treat as an absolute authority and which one should I "completely disregard the experiences of out of hand" to use your pretentious language?

    Russia Beyond

    Finally. Say what you will about Russian state media, but at least it's more of a source than random people on the internet, which you seem to primarily rely on.

    says the wait time was 6-7 years. . . This source also says that Public sector employees (doctors, teachers, etc) had a wait time of 10 or more years.

    Which completely contradicts the other user.

    Looking at all this, it seems to me what u/Blacklazor said was not incorrect. It may be exaggerated, but the sources say most people lived in cramped apartments with too many people per sqm, were waiting “More than 10 years” to upgrade, and didnt’ get to specify which apartment one was given, or where it was located. So far the account checks out.

    What on earth?? "The account checks out" when they were exaggerating somewhere between 2-5 times the actual numbers?

    The claim was not, "you had to wait 20-30 years for an upgrade" it was specifically "You weren’t getting any housing in that system. You could enlist in a queue and wait for 20-30 years to get piss poor commie block apartment." That's completely unsupported by your sources.

    What I did say is that you had the same kind of reaction against u/Blacklazor that a religious person does when confronted with questions of faith, because you did. You completely disregarded the account and made zero effort to assess or examine your own position.

    It's also the same reaction a scientist tends to have towards a flat-earther. I don't know why you think a random internet person saying things is something that should be treated as a reliable source. If someone says, "I walked and walked for miles and the earth seemed really flat the whole way," am I allowed to "discount their entire experience" or am I supposed to "put effort into reassessing my position" regarding the shape of the earth?

    As it turns out, I was 100% right to be skeptical, because your own sources back me up and show that the other person was completely wrong.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 24 child comments
  • [–] -1 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (23 children)

    Just like they did to me, when they said the only thing that drew me to communism was “propaganda” as opposed to my time working under capitalism. The difference is that I discounted their unsubstantiated claims about statistical facts while they discounted my own journey.

    Yeah but you did it first.

    According to Quora? Great, so now we have two internet randos saying something.

    I mean you could get up off your butt and look yourself if you have a problem with the source I provided. Like I said there's a wealth of information out there regarding the subject. You could also try to dispute my source instead of just dismissing it out of hand - like you did to u/Blacklazor.

    Finally. Say what you will about Russian state media, but at least it’s more of a source than random people on the internet, which you seem to primarily rely on.

    Ahh, so you'll trust media from the oppressors you agree with. So basically you're a tankie equvalent of MAGA.

    What on earth?? “The account checks out” when they were exaggerating somewhere between 2-5 times the actual numbers?

    So you didn't actually read anymore about the subject, right? Why am I not suprised.

    The claim was not, “you had to wait 20-30 years for an upgrade” it was specifically "You weren’t getting any housing in that system. You could enlist in a queue and wait for 20-30 years to get piss poor commie block apartment." That’s completely unsupported by your sources.

    Read the rest of that paragraph please. I'll post it here to make it easy for you.

    You weren’t getting any housing in that system. You could enlist in a queue and wait for 20-30 years to get piss poor commie block apartment. My father was one of very few people who were just well enough for building a house. He was struggling with money, rationing of materials, corruption and poor quality of work, while our family of four lived in 20m2 apartment like animals in stables.

    I.e. His family of four lived in a 20 sqm apartment (less than 9sqm per person) and would have to wait 20-30 years to get a "piss poor commie block apartment." I don't think it's unreasonable to characterize "waiting 20-30 years" as "never." Now if you'd read the sources I posted you'd see this aligns very closely with what is described - that being most people who weren't rich or connected to an oligarch had to wait more than 10 years for an apartment. I even found a source that broke it down into a nice and helpful chart - see if you can find that source yourself.

    I mean, I know you won't becuase this hands your ass to your arguement on a sliver platter with a side of trimmings, and if there's one thing people like you can't stand it's being proved wrong, bu whatever.

    As it turns out, I was 100% right to be skeptical, because your own sources back me up and show that the other person was completely wrong.

    Except in real life it wasn't, what u/blacklazor described aligns pretty well with the accounts on both pages, and other sources you will find if you just quit being lazy and put in the effort.

    Skipping the rest of the bullshit you posted for my own mental health. There is a wealth of information that you can get with a few simple googles, please read up and stop embarassing yourself.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 23 child comments
  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago (22 children)

    Yeah but you did it first.

    No, literally this was from their very first comment.

    You could also try to dispute my source instead of just dismissing it out of hand - like you did to u/Blacklazor.

    Again, random internet users are not a credible source. Pointing that fact out is disputing your source. Don't they teach you this in school?

    Ahh, so you’ll trust media from the oppressors you agree with. So basically you’re a tankie equvalent of MAGA.

    YOU posted the source! If I had rejected it, you'd be attacking me for blindly dismissing anything that contradicts my worldview! Damned if I do, damned if I don't, there's no winning with you.

    I literally called attention to the fact that your source is Russian state media, and that you can "say what you will about it," to indicate that it's not fully trustworthy. Were you even aware it was affiliated with the Russian government?

    I.e. His family of four lived in a 20 sqm apartment (less than 9sqm per person) and would have to wait 20-30 years to get a “piss poor commie block apartment.”

    That's not what he said at all. The 20 sqm apartment was the "piss poor commie block apartment" that one would have to wait 20-30 years for.

    Now if you’d read the sources I posted you’d see this aligns very closely with what is described - that being most people who weren’t rich or connected to an oligarch had to wait more than 10 years for an apartment.

    I did read your sources, and they in fact said that most people had to wait 6-7 years:

    "On average, the waiting time to receive an apartment from the state in the USSR was around six to seven years."

    In fact, you got it backwards. The part about "over 10 years" is about public sector employees. Even then, 10 is significantly less that "20-30," but I suppose they didn't teach you that either.

    I mean, I know you won’t becuase this hands your ass to your arguement on a sliver platter with a side of trimmings, and if there’s one thing people like you can’t stand it’s being proved wrong, bu whatever.

    Lmao, your source saying 6-7 years in contrast to the claim of 20-30 "hands my ass to my argument on a silver platter with a side of trimmings?" Is there any number that would lead you to admit you're wrong? What would it have to be, 3 years? 1 year? A week? Apparently it can be off by a factor of 5, and you'll still treat it as some kind of smoking gun that proves I won't accept being proven wrong.

    The projection is truly off the scales.

    and other sources you will find if you just quit being lazy and put in the effort.

    Skipping the rest of the bullshit you posted

    The fact that you posted these right next to each other 😆

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 22 child comments
  • [–] -1 points 6 months ago* (21 children)

    Whatever son. It's a free country, so go with whatever bullshit you want. The evidence backs up u/Blacklazor and not you, I love how you just can't handle it.

    I would also like to point out the parts of his comments that you didn't dispute or don't have a probem with, such as his father "needed to get a permit to leave the country," or that food was "rationed, not subsidized," or the fact that in order to get housing, one must get on a list and wait multiple years in the first place. I mean, yeah that sure does sound like a great place to live.

    But please, go do the work and read up on the subject, because you're wrong on pretty much all of your points above. Like this one:

    That’s not what he said at all. The 20 sqm apartment was the “piss poor commie block apartment” that one would have to wait 20-30 years for.

    Nope. If you would've actually done the research, you'd have seen that one is usually given a bed in a dormatory, then must get on a waiting list for a "piss poor commie block apartment." The tiny apartment where a family of four is squeezed into 20sqm is after they waited multiple years. This is if they were lucky enough to get an apartment they didn't have to share with multiple other families.

    Now please put in the effort and read up on it, because you're really misinformed.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 21 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (20 children)

    Whatever son. It’s a free country, so go with whatever bullshit you want. The evidence backs up u/Blacklazor and not you, I love how you just can’t handle it.

    The evidence you presented points to 6-7, not 20-30. I don't know how else to say it, you're just objectively wrong by a factor of 3-5 by your own source, and no amount of pretending otherwise will change that fact.

    I would also like to point out the parts of his comments that you didn’t dispute or don’t have a probem with

    See, this is the problem. Nowhere did I actually claim that the USSR was some kind of perfect utopia. You just assigned those positions to me because you decided I'm a "tankie" so I must believe that, instead of listening to what I actually say. Attacking me over claims I didn't make is the definition of a strawman.

    Nope. If you would’ve actually done the research, you’d have seen that one is usually given a bed in a dormatory, then must get on a waiting list for a “piss poor commie block apartment.” The tiny apartment where a family of four is squeezed into 20sqm is after they waited multiple years. This is if they were lucky enough to get an apartment they didn’t have to share with multiple other families.

    This, again, is not how it works. If you "actually did the research" then show me the evidence. You can't just allude vaguely to some claim you found somewhere, especially since the sources you've cited so far, a random Quora user and Russian state media you didn't realize was Russian state media, don't exactly fill me with confidence regarding your investigative standards.

    It just blows my mind how hypocritical you can be, you found evidence that clearly proves you wrong and you keep projecting on to me that I won't change my mind in the light of evidence that I'm right.

    6-7 is less than 20-30. That's really all that needs to be said. You just can't accept that basic mathematical fact because you're an ideologue.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 20 child comments
  • [–] -1 points 6 months ago (19 children)

    You just can’t accept that basic mathematical fact because you’re an ideologue.

    No, I think you refuse to do the research on this subject because you're the actual ideologue here. You have an emotional stake in somehow proving that the USSR wasn't a totalitarian inept impoverished wasteland, and actually learning what life was like under that system would destroy your worldview.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 19 child comments
  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago (18 children)

    I'm the only one of us capable of acknowledging that 7 is a smaller number than 20. If understanding elementary school level math makes me an ideologue, a tankie, whatever else, then so be it. Nothing you say changes those numbers.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 18 child comments
  • [–] -1 points 6 months ago (17 children)

    What's more important, what you want to believe or what really happened?
    Read up on the subject please.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 17 child comments
  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago* (16 children)

    Tell me, was "what really happened" 6-7 years or 20-30 years? Can you answer that one question?

    You're the one rejecting the evidence in favor of what you want to believe.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 16 child comments
  • [–] -1 points 6 months ago (15 children)

    It was more than 10 years for most people, and up to 20 years or more.
    Which you would've known if you'd bothered to do the reading.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 15 child comments
  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago (14 children)

    Wrong. Your own source said 6-7 years, which you would know if you did the reading. Even then, and this may surprise you to learn, but 10 is also less than 20.

    20-30 years is completely and utterly unsupported. It's a total ass pull. And you're trying to claim I'm an ideologue because I'm sticking to the facts instead of this made up bullshit that's contradicted by your own sources.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 14 child comments
  • [–] 0 points 5 months ago (13 children)

    So you haven't bothered to do any more research, correct? Do you really care about the truth? Or do you only care about winning an arguement?

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 13 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago (12 children)

    Buddy, the burden of proof is on the person making the claim. I'm not going to do your homework for you.

    And you can talk all you want about how I "don't care about the truth," no amount of posturing will change the objective fact that 7 is less than 20. I'm the only one here basing my beliefs in anything factual.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 12 child comments
  • [–] 0 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (11 children)

    Lol you're literally asking me to do your work for you.
    No, if you're interested, YOU can go and do the research, like I've been telling you for the last five comments.

    And you can talk all you want about how I “don’t care about the truth,” no amount of posturing will change the objective fact that 7 is less than 20.

    The truth is normal people waited 10 or more years, sometimes more than 20.
    I mean you wouldn't know, because you haven't bothered to do any additional reading. I've already proven it to my own statisfaction, now you can do the same.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 11 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago* (10 children)

    You've proven it to my satisfaction too! I'm using your own source, which literally says, word for word, that the wait time was 6-7 years! Nowhere have you presented any evidence it was remotely close to 20-30!

    I'm not surprised that you've "proven it to your own satisfaction," given that your standards of evidence are random Quora users and Russian state media you don't even realize is Russian state media! And even they say you're wrong! Literally the only standard you're applying is, "What makes the USSR look bad" or "What lets me win this argument."

    I really don't know what you're getting out of this. You are not going to convince me that when it says, "the average wait time was 6-7 years" it actually meant 20-30. You're not going to convince me that 6-7 is basically the same as 20-30. You're not going to get me to do your homework for you. Your source says 6-7, not 20-30 so that's what I'm going with. This is incredibly straightforward.

    I legitimately can't tell if you're just trolling me or if you're legitimately unable to understand this. Just find a schoolbus in the morning, and get on it. You need more help than I could ever provide.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 10 child comments
  • [–] 0 points 5 months ago* (9 children)

    Ok, I see that you're more interested in winning an arguement than what is really true. I'll say it one last time,
    In real life, the wait time for the average person to get an apartment in the USSR was more than 10 years, sometimes up to 20 or more. This is what multiple sources (including the ones I posted) actually say. If you don't believe me go back and read them in greater detail, or even better do some additional reading of other sources that I didn't list.

    Nowhere have you presented any evidence it was remotely close to 20-30!

    Because i'ts not my job to educate you. I told you what to do, now you can choose to do it.

    God damn, no wonder kids are so fucking stupid nowadays. Nobody can get you people to read.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 9 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (8 children)

    Bro, it doesn't matter how many times you say something. What matters is what the fucking source says. It's like you think if you just say something loudly and confidently enough, that somehow makes it true. It's ridiculous.

    This is what multiple sources (including the ones I posted) actually say.

    That's just an outright lie. I saw the source, you saw the source, I don't know who you possibly think is going to fall for that. Nobody else is reading this far into a pointless argument in a 4 day old thread (apparently one person did, hi, upvoter) Like, literally:

    Who am I going to believe? You, or my own eyes?

    God damn, no wonder kids are so fucking stupid nowadays. Nobody can get you people to read.

    Buddy, I understand you're just trying to copy what I said, but you have absolutely no leg to stand on here. The screenshot is literally right there like a smoking gun. If you're not trolling and aware that you're spewing bullshit, you have to be the most ignorant person on the planet.

    But you know what? Fine. I looked into it and here's my source saying it's 6-7 years.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 8 child comments
  • [–] 0 points 5 months ago (7 children)

    Bro, what is the one thing I asked you to do, in my last 15 comments?

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 7 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago (6 children)
  • [–] 0 points 5 months ago (5 children)

    I asked you to read additional sources besides the ones I provided for you. Did you do that?

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 5 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago (4 children)

    Yes, actually, I did. I remain convinced that your source is correct and that it was 6-7, not 20-30.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [–] 0 points 5 months ago* (3 children)

    Then apparently you didn't read this source, which was one of the sources I gave you, where it says "In Moscow of the 1970s-1980s, for a regular schmuck in a regular clerk position, the rule of thumb was 10 years, give or take."

    Or this, also from the same source, "Large regional capitals and major cities (Moscow, Leningrad, Kiev, Riga): commonly 7–20+ years; in the biggest cities many applicants waited a decade or more."

    Or maybe this one from Russia Beyond, which is the other source I gave you, which you loved to point out says "On average, the waiting time to receive an apartment from the state in the USSR was around six to seven years." However if you weren't so damn lazy you would've read the next fucking paragraph, which says "Public sector employees (teachers, doctors) could join a waiting list compiled by the local administration, but the waiting time on these could be more than 10 years." It's almost like you don't care about the actual truth.

    Or maybe if you weren't lazy you could've done some additional reading like I told you to like seven times, then you would've found this source, which literally the 5th result in a google search, and you would've seen this:

    'Life in a hostel is unbearable even with one child,' Natalya Fomina, 26, a weaver at a textile factory in the Ural Mountains told the weekly Moscow News. 'By the time I get a flat I'll probably be an old woman.' A 20-year wait was termed 'the general rule.'

    But you didn't bother doing that because you didn't do any further reading because you're intellectually lazy and don't give a fuck about the actual truth. So no suprise there.

    Hey look, here's another source which is literally on the front page of a google search, where it's mentioned " I’ve been waiting for a home for 10 years, but I can’t afford it and I don’t have a back-up." I won't tell you which page that's located on because I want you to find it for yourself.

    In fact, since I know you're lazy as hell and don't actually give a fuck, here's five other sources. But watch out, one of these sources is false! Which one is it? You'll have to quit being lazy and actually READ them to find out.

    Here
    Here
    Here
    Here
    and Here

    Now quit being lazy. Go to Google.com, type in "How long did people wait for housing in the USSR," click "Search" and read some of the god damned links. Ask yourself "Do you actually care about the truth?" Because if you are then stop lying to me about reading, and actually do the fucking reading.

    Jesus fucking wept.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (2 children)

    Now that you've finally done your homework, presented the sources of your beliefs for me to examine, like I told you to do about seven times, I will happily go through them, since you are no longer trying to make me go on a wild goose chase hunting down every random internet user with something negative to say about the USSR.

    Your first source, as mentioned before, is a random Quora user. That's not remotely credible and it's ridiculous that you're still trying to use that even after I addressed it.

    Your second source, Russia Beyond, I've addressed countless times. It quite clearly says that the average wait time was 6-7 years. Public sector employees might have to wait 10 or more, but the claim was about the average in general, and as I've repeatedly told you, 10 is also less than 20-30.

    Your third source says:

    On the positive side, the boast that 'there are no homeless in the Soviet Union' is generally true. But the homes are not what a Western family would tolerate -- or what Soviets want.

    Which again, the claim was about housing in general and not about upgrades.

    Moving on to your fourth source:

    I won’t tell you which page that’s located on because I want you to find it for yourself.

    Lol, being deliberately obtuse is not how you get people to engage with a source. Nevertheless, because I have such tremendous patience, I looked it up, it's on page 9. Once again, this is an single individual and tells us nothing about the overall statistical reality, and once again, 10 years is less than 20-30.

    Your fifth source says:

    Waiting lists for separate apartments could take 10 years or longer

    Meaning, you'd have a shared apartment but might have to wait 10 years to upgrade to a separate dwelling. 10 years is still less than 20-30.

    Also, Radio Free Europe is affiliated with the US government, just fyi. I take it with a grain of salt, like with the Russian one, but, like the Russian one, it contradicts your position, so that's your problem, not mine.

    Your sixth source says:

    But if the room was 14 sq.m – they received the right to improve their living conditions and were included into the waiting list for the new flat, granted from the State (this people are called ocheredniki) . Some ocheredniki have to wait for several years (in Moscow and Leningrad – 10 years and even more).

    Once again, that's saying 10+ years for an upgrade (in specific cities), contradicting the claim of 20-30 years to get anything at all, because, and this is true, 10 is less than 20-30.

    Your seventh source says:

    During the Stalin era, between 1927 and 1955, the USSR did not increase the extremely low per capita built-up area rates that existed in 1917, 4m2. Cohabitation was frequent and necessary, with about 35% of the population living in shared apartments until the end of the USSR. The queues of waiting to obtain housing took around 10 years.

    This one says around 10 years to obtain housing in the Stalin era. I'm not sure if they mean, housing outside of a shared apartment or housing in general, and the situation was worse during that era than later. Once again, 10 years is less than 20-30.

    Your eighth source is a Rickroll. I'm not sure why you think trolling me for reading through your sources is a good idea. I think your frustrations have more to do with the fact that you seem very confused about the purpose of sources and how debate works in general, rather than anything on my part.

    Your ninth source says:

    Instead, the MZhK movement started to be seen primarily as a shortcut for solving the housing problems of young families, who otherwise had to wait in the queue for years or even decades.

    This is perhaps the closest any of your sources has come to backing up the claim of 20-30 years, however, it doesn't explain where that claim actually comes from or how typical it was, or if it's talking about waiting in the queue for an upgrade, or for housing at all.


    There. See, when you do your homework, I do my part too. I'm just not going to do the part of trying to guess where you're getting your claims and beliefs from.

    I'm not sure what part of that Jesus is so broken up about tbh 🤣

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 0 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 child)

    Now that you’ve finally done your homework, presented the sources of your beliefs for me to examine, like I told you to do about seven times, I will happily go through them, since you are no longer trying to make me go on a wild goose chase hunting down every random internet user with something negative to say about the USSR.

    The whole point, since the begining, was to get you to do additional reading beyond what is presented to you. You know, to LEARN ABOUT THE FUCKING SUBJECT.
    But you don't actually care about the subject, do you? Because you only give a shit about defending your ideology, and not about the truth about what actually happened. This is why you're always going to lose, because you're dishonest, and I have no patience for people who are dishonest.

    Edit: Jesus fucking wept.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago

    That's not being "dishonest" that's just how debates work. You seem to be reading an incredible amount of things into the fact that I wouldn't do your homework for you.

    Although, you had already decided you knew all sorts of things about me from your first comment. Since you had already made up your mind, there was never any way for me to change that.

    But I will say, I appreciate that you did finally do your homework. It will be nice to have those sources if I ever need to refute similar claims in the future.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] -4 points 6 months ago (5 children)

    Weird, I actually live in the system I want to change,

    You really should go to Cuba and stay there. Why change current system if you can just travel and live in your dream paradise?

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 5 child comments
  • [–] 7 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (4 children)

    The small island country that's being threatened and economically isolated by the most powerful and militaristic country on earth? Not my first choice.

    Why do anti-communists always suggest moving directly into the crosshairs of imperialism?

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [–] -4 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    Then go to Noth Korea, I don't care

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago* (1 child)

    Interesting thread of comments. I kept upvoting both sides of the comments when good points were made.

    I think you lost me with Cuba. Probably would've been better to come back with evidence of the 20-30 years claim, or a cited example of some of the systemic dysfunction of life in the USSR instead of jumping to Cuba, arguably the worst current example to pick.

    Edit: my bad, you have more responses to others.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [+] 10 points 6 months ago (6 children)
  • [+] -7 points 6 months ago (5 children)

    No. They're so poor that $500 looks like a fortune

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 5 child comments
  • [+] 8 points 6 months ago* (4 children)
  • [–] -4 points 6 months ago (3 children)

    free healthcare

    Dogshit healthcare being decades behind that in the west/

    free education to the highest level

    Education was dogshit lacking the basic necessities, in building falling apart.

    guaranteed job

    Most jobs were completely unnecessary. They provided nothing of value.

    heavily subsidized foodstuffs

    Rationed. Not subsidized. You couldn't just go and buy a fucking bread, or a bar of chocolate, or sugar, or flour, or a washing machine, or TV or a car. Your money was almost worthless. Food stamps were worth more than the money you paid for the food. If you manage to be super lucky and get permit to buy a new car, you could resell it immediately for 2x or even 3x of nominal price. and it wasn't a good car, it was this piece of shit.

    It's actually funny that this 'wonderful' system couldn't design their own car, and had to resort into buying a design license for utterly outdated modified fiat 500 from filthy capitalist Italy.

    0% inflation over a span of 40 years

    FUCKING LIES. Check the black market dollar value to see the actual scale of inflation that was happening.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [+] 9 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (2 children)
  • [–] -1 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    I literally searched and found the data to prove you wrong:

    THIS is life expectancy of Poland, since 50s. This is life expectancy in America for the same period.

    Throughout almost the entire period America had better life expectancy than Communist Poland. You can even see the upward trend after 1990 in PL once capitalism got introduced and medicine started to catch up with the West.

    Cuba, CUBA, has higher life expectancy expectancy than the US

    WTF are you talking about, they're the same, with Cuba being horribly lower in 50s and 60s

    You’re literally bullshitting

    No you, are.

    USSR at the time had the highest number of doctors per capita on earth.

    But they couldn't build sophisticated medical equipment in sufficient numbers. It's the same story as with cars. The economy was disfunctional as fuck. And poland cooked the books about employment and inflation hard, USSR probably did too.

    I'm not going to engage in debate with someone who quotes fake data like "0% inflation" and such. You bought into a cult of lies and deception

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • load more comments (1 reply)
  • [–] 3 points 6 months ago (6 children)

    And what do capitalist states look like in real life for those not in the 0.1%?

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 6 child comments
  • [–] -2 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (5 children)

    Meh economically, while still enjoying nice things like criticizing the government.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 5 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago (4 children)

    You don’t read the news much, eh?

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago (3 children)

    To a distressing degree, but your question wasn't for just for anyone in the bottom 99.9% of people to actually answer honestly, eh?

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 0 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    I’m not going to worry about what argumentative capitalist goons would consider to be honest.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 92 points 6 months ago (18 children)

    Imagine living in a world where your value as a person isn't tied to how physically exploitable you are.

  • source
  • hideshow 18 child comments
  • [–] 62 points 6 months ago (12 children)

    Hey now! Under capitalism, your value as a person is tied to how aggressively you exploit others.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 12 child comments
  • [–] 5 points 6 months ago* (11 children)

    That has not been my experience. Nobody is demanding that of me. Just physical exploitation, from all corners.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 11 child comments
  • [–] 16 points 6 months ago (7 children)

    Yes, because capitalism does not value you. You aren't a capitalist.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 7 child comments
  • [–] -2 points 6 months ago (6 children)

    Capitalism doesn't value anything. It is the codification of one of several ways of life we can only understand by observing human beings whose behavior is antithetical to the survival and advancement of our species. It is an evolutionary and ideological dead end, the same as the genetic lineage of any creature born with the compulsion to commit suicide from birth. People can choose to do better so it's not a matter of genocide to do away with it. It's ideocide. All instances of this system of thought must be done away with, and future generations warned about the consequences of ever allowing it to regain a foothold in the noosphere.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 6 child comments
  • [–] 8 points 6 months ago (5 children)

    I would say it values anything that enables the growth of capital. That can include people. However, I do agree that it is inherently indifferent to human life.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 5 child comments
  • [–] 3 points 6 months ago (4 children)

    I get where you're coming from but I do feel the need to point out that you're ascribing held values to an ideology. It's not a person, it can't value anything. As an ideology it is valuable to people whose values prioritize self-enablement at all costs.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago (3 children)

    Interesting point. I think you're right. It's a system, not a sentient being, it can't really have values. Thx for the interesting point.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago (2 children)

    Always a pleasure when minds meet well uwu

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 6 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    If you just bullied the fuck out of people, maybe you’d be able to pull yourself using their bootstraps

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 3 points 6 months ago* (1 child)

    That behavior is encouraged, and the circumstances that give rise to it cultivated, by people who subscribe to that worldview. Because it justifies their choices to throw the many under the bus for the desires (not needs but mere desires) of the few.

    It all comes back to exploitation; the rest is just what it takes to sustain it.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 11 points 6 months ago (3 children)

    Luckily for me I get exploited physically and mentally. I strive to one day only be exploited mentally.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 72 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    straight from facebook, what a post.

  • source
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 16 points 6 months ago (13 children)

    What other meaning would they have?

  • source
  • hideshow 13 child comments
  • [–] 59 points 6 months ago (12 children)

    I mean, they represent physical labor, in the sense that one physically uses a hammer and a sickle as tools. But the reason communists pair those symbols together is because they represent the class alliance of industrial workers, and rural peasants.

    This is a repost of bad conservative Onion ripoff, The Babylon Bee, though. So I expect only the most shallow, baby-brained, "jokes" your average chud could muster

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 12 child comments
  • [–] 15 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    I also like the sextant the GDR added to represent knowledge workers.

    This is a repost of bad conservative Onion ripoff, The Babylon Bee, though. So I expect only the most shallow, baby-brained, "jokes" your average chud could muster

    Context matters. Could have been funny, if it were a self-deprecating joke. But now I think "ah, they don't know what they're talking about".

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 5 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    That's a compass (math kind not navigation kind) not a sextant. A sextant would be more likely to represent the mercantile class than knowledge workers. But yeah I love their symbol because it really shines as a symbol for German communism by including a tool associated with engineers.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [+] [S] -26 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (8 children)

    Why haven't you posted anything better? Classic .ML do a lot of complaining and interject moral superiority while doing nothing of substance. I'm out here breaking my back harvesting memes to bring back like slop for the pig trough. 4 count em FOUR group chats among different friend groups that share memes. Plus tertiary collection. I save AND post them. By the sweat of my brow I share a minor chuckle or quick exhale from the nose followed by a slight smile and head shake. This is what I do for you. Yet, this is how you repay me?

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 8 child comments
  • [–] 25 points 6 months ago (5 children)

    Four group chats and the best you've got is some Facebook boomer shit??

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 5 child comments
  • [+] [S] -20 points 6 months ago* (4 children)

    Idk a Lil ragebait in the shitpost community is absolutely perfect for me on occasion. Still waiting to hear why you don't post sick ass memes...

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • load more comments
    view more: next ›