UK Google DeepMind employees vote to unionize over its AI defense deals : technology@lemmy.world

This is mostly good; the bad is that the people unionizing would use the same pro-Military Industrial Complex language as OpenAI to explain their willingness to commit violent.

Employees pushing back on the deal are concerned that it could open the door for Google's technology to be used for autonomous weapons and mass surveillance of American citizens.

The loopholes in this seemingly Wholesome Keanu Chungus statement are broad and pretty obvious if given a little thought. Employees allow for:

semi autonomous mass murder weapons
selective new AI surveillance
all the mass surveillance currently happening

If you dig any deeper into it, most of the linked articles from the Business Insider post point to AI Apocalypse fearmongering from Google and Google subsidiaries. Sigh.

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[–] chobeat@lemmy.ml [S] 7 points 6 months ago (22 children)

It's labor organizing, not intellectual engagement. The point is to build power in the company, not argue about vocabulary. Words are instrumental, they are not the goal.

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[–] XLE@piefed.social 2 points 6 months ago (21 children)

Here's a hot take: If a union does bad things, those things are still bad. Like police unions. Hotter take: mass murder is bad.

Surely the brilliant minds at Google can think just a little bit about the loopholes? No?

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[–] tabarnaski@sh.itjust.works 4 points 6 months ago (16 children)

Yes, but a union is a step in the right direction. You can't fix everything all at once.

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[–] XLE@piefed.social 0 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (15 children)

Like I said, the unionization in this instance is mostly good. There's plenty of examples in the article that I left out because they're unobjectionable. It's just unfortunate seeing the union repeat talking points manufactured by their employer.

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[–] chobeat@lemmy.ml [S] 1 point 6 months ago (14 children)

If you speak a language workers don't understand, you increase the cognitive load and lower interest and participation. It's a trade-off and it's an ineliminabile part of the game. Being correct and being useful are two different things

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[–] XLE@piefed.social 1 point 6 months ago* (13 children)

I find it a bit offensive that you assume Google employees can only comprehend the simplest language, and it's coincidentally the language handed to them from on high by Google themselves. (Ah. Dot ML.)

But let's assume you're correct, and engage in a little creativity to simplify employee complaints in order to make it have fewer loopholes.

Employees pushing back on the deal are concerned ~~that it could open the door for~~ Google's technology [could] be used for ~~autonomous~~ weapons and ~~mass~~ surveillance ~~of American citizens~~.

12 fewer words, 4 fewer loopholes (preexisting surveillance, semi autonomous weapons, selective surveillance, foreign mass surveillance).

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[–] chobeat@lemmy.ml [S] 1 point 6 months ago (3 children)

I've been in tech labor organizing for 8 years at this point. I know written documents matter pretty much nothing for organizing, let alone tech workers organizing. And yes, tech workers need a simple language.

The statement you've written is very good to argue on the internet, but it closes any avenue for picking winnable issues in the real world. If the original one sets a clear, achievable goal (canceling a new contract), the one you wrote prevents any kind of realistic demand and sets an unachievable goal for a newly formed union.

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[–] XLE@piefed.social 1 point 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (2 children)

I guess we're moving on from the topic of employee understanding on to the topic of negotiation.

On concession: Do they really need to concede to Google talking point verbatim? Why not argue for three gaping loopholes instead of four? Why not add a fifth to smooth things over? Or (even better): in order to differentiate themselves from every AI company that has the same fake "red line" doctrine, they could omit it altogether.

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[–] chobeat@lemmy.ml [S] 1 point 6 months ago (1 child)

because these statements are instrumental to building power. They are not a draft of a negotiation proposal. They are a galvanizing message for workers, not a formal demand. Without power, formal demands are pointless. To build power, clarity, concreteness and directness beats idealism, rigour and formalism every day.

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[–] XLE@piefed.social 0 points 6 months ago*

Okay.... Guess we aren't talking about concessions or simplicity now... Moving on to a new point, 3/3?

If the statements aren't used for negotiation purposes, then they should be much clearer and not tow the Google line, right?

The formal "red line" doctrine is intentionally unclear and based on the idealist belief that AI will somehow become super powerful. Meanwhile a statement without big holes is more concrete, and less shaky wording makes it more direct.

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[–] TheJesusaurus@piefed.ca 1 point 6 months ago (8 children)

Google tech can be used for weapons and surveillance (and are) right now and without AI. If the union wanted that to be their line in the sand then their jobs would cease to exist

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[–] XLE@piefed.social 1 point 6 months ago* (7 children)

Do you just propose the union just adopt Google's exact stance on this? Are you willing to accept a weaker one? A much weaker one, perhaps? Where do you draw your lines?

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[–] TheJesusaurus@piefed.ca 1 point 6 months ago (6 children)

I propose that the union membership itself knows a fuck a lot better than I do do I'm not gonna not pick specifics I don't personally like with THEIR negotiating position

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