First, I know what most of you are going to say. I myself was an internet atheist 20 years ago, quoting Dawkins and Sagan at magic-sky-daddy believers. But this isn't about convincing anyone to believe.

This is about pragmatics. And, pragmatically, the single biggest enemy right now is the conservative Christian right. Anything to fracture that coalition benefits the left.

Luckily, their gospels are pretty left-wing. So, I offer for your consideration, the Christian angle.

I encourage those of you who went to Sunday school to brush up on your Scripture. Matthew is a treasure trove. When you're talking to someone on the right, start hitting them with chapter and verse.

If nothing else, this is initially shocking. They're supposed to be the Christians, and you're some filthy commie reminding them that Jesus called the wealthy priests hypocrites, and told us to feed the hungry and aid the sick.

They have defense mechanisms against your crybaby commie talk. They don't have defense mechanisms against their own scripture. At worst, you shake them loose from their script and confuse them, giving you openings for gentle deprogramming.

At best, they might reflect on their leadership and how closely they follow Jesus' commands. Anyone who really believes in him and really reads the gospels is going to wind up a leftist, whether they call it that or not.

Just food for thought. Read up on what Jesus said, use that against the people who claim to follow him. You don't have to believe yourself to recognize a powerful rhetorical tool.

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[–] 15 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Christian communism is a concept that predates Marx.

For many years I felt this approach to Christianity was the best shot for socialism to gain any traction in the USA. I am unsure these days, but still hopeful.

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  • [–] [S] 8 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    I'm hoping that a fracture can be cultivated on the right, and the chapter-and-verse conservatives can be sneakied into socialism so long as we don't call it that. At least we can try to break them from whatever MAGA is.

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  • [+] 13 points 9 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] [S] 4 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    I'm not saying there aren't outliers, there always are. If someone is that far gone, there's not much left to save. But most Christians aren't that far gone.

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  • [–] 11 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    You haven’t been the socialist in bible study in a long time, I see.

    “You’re taking it out of context” and “that was different at the time” and “well but actually he also meant this” and “the Bible says this here though” were constant in my teen years and precisely why I just accepted that I’m fully atheist/agnostic.

    Selfish pricks are going to selfish prick. Reach out to those who are like minded, sure, and use scripture if they’re religious. But don’t expect to un-racist a dyed-in-the-wool racist with the Bible.

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  • [–] 5 points 9 months ago

    Luke and Timothy have some good shit in them too

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    I think it's too late

    Even atheists in the US subscribe to the "fuck you, I got mine" philosophy

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  • [–] [S] 8 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    Maybe it's too late. But I'm reminded of this

    and I'm down to at least try

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    Oh, I agree

    If I have to use someone's stupid beliefs to try to get a result, I'll use them happily

    Unfortunately, the stupid (and by "stupid", I mean "religious") are more given to hatred than tolerance, because it requires less thought and they're simple.

    Barely a step beyond the dullest of animals

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago

    If you say homosexuality is sin, you are basically renouncing Jesus.

    They died a super painful death largely because in their opinion, nothing you do with a pure heart – that is, meaning to do good to others and having done your homework to try to understand if it is an okay thing to do or not – is sin.
    They were tortured to death very largely because they said that whatever is defined as sin by the old testament is no longer automatically a sin. Jesus of Nazareth invalidated the whole list of sin definitions in old testament.
    If you're basing your argument on the Old Testament saying something is a sin, you are renouncing Jesus, and therefore, you are not Christian.

    I don't really understand why people want to be Christians in the first place. But, if they want to be, maybe they at least should care about what Jesus said according to the Bible and not just assume that Jesus was some idiot you can safely ignore if you feel like someone being different is automatically a danger to you. Something like 95 % or 99 % of people calling themselves Christians by religion are in practical terms renouncing the word of Jesus. Like, do they not know where the word "Christianity" even comes from?

    Mrmph. That's what I say. Mrmph.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    Matthew 5 is generally a good way to live your life imo. Unfortunately in my experience American Christians are more than willing to say Jesus was wrong when he said stuff like "give to him who asks you, and from him who wants to borrow from you do not turn away." Like he did not stutter, but American Christians would rather burn in hell than give away their material possessions

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