A four-slide comic featuring a kangaroo and a man. The Kangaroo asks:
- I'm a communist, and what are you?
The man answers cautiously:
- I'm an anarchist.
The kangaroo responds:
- Cool, we can be friends until the revolution.
Then it continues:
- After that it gets difficult.

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[+] 63 points 11 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (32 children)
  • [–] 8 points 11 months ago (7 children)

    As opposed to internet communists who are well known for not being insufferable

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  • [+] 4 points 11 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (7 children)
  • [–] 6 points 11 months ago

    there's also difference between being correct and being effective. right wing propaganda machines program people to exist in binaries and young leftists, new initiates i mean, have to break out of that. they have to learn to listen to the problems people are experiencing and talk about how to address those problems rather than fixating on an us/them dichotomy

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  • [+] -6 points 11 months ago (5 children)

    Have you considered that if leftists are correct, conservatives are too, and that it’s merely a matter of perspective? It seems as though your consideration of libs being bothered may be a case of projection as it bothers you that other perspectives may be worthy of consideration as well.

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago

    Yeah. Maybe should cease being played into being against each other.

    Unite freedomwards.

    No more falling for the terror psyop of each being out to take away your freedoms. Cui bono.

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  • [+] 0 points 11 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (2 children)
  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (1 child)

    I think I agree with you, I was merely trying to point out that not all conservatives are fascists. Thinking that way leads to a superiority complex in leftists that may ultimately turn themselves into fascists too.

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  • [–] 6 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    Probably a lot of fake anarchists paid (or duped) to give anarchism a bad name, to give people the wrong idea about what anarchism is, to turn them away from mutual freedom for each and all, back into the arms of daddy corporatarchy government.

    Like that malarch in this thread, saying they wanted to kill 37% of everybody, because anarchism. `_`

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  • [–] 10 points 11 months ago* (5 children)

    This might not be what you meant, but I've found 90+% of the 'online left' regardless of ideology to be far more ultra-left, alienated and toxic than most people on the ground, even including the drama kiddos on college campuses and split rival organizations. To everyone I highly recommend finding people in real life, if possible.

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  • [–] 7 points 11 months ago (3 children)

    real life leftists are fun as hell to be around. if anyone's looking for some:

    • IWW
    • CWA
    • Redneck Revolt
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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    I kinda got excited about redneck revolt but their website says they disbanded in 2019.

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  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago (6 children)

    If either of them don't do mutual aid their dead to me.

    Commies that say they do mutual aid because of communism I kindly remind them. "You actually do mutual aid because of Kropotkin."

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  • [+] 7 points 11 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (2 children)
  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (1 child)

    And great example that just because you were born to riches, does not mean you have to remain an inegalitarian maintaining the power imbalance keeping the little people down.

    Well done Kropotkin.

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  • [+] 0 points 11 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 child)
  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago

    (I'm probably some ways wrong about this in my lingering naivety [and, so, happy (eager, even) to hear counter-arguments, refutations, educations otherwise], but...)

    I see Engels as part responsible for leading Marx astray from listening to Bakunin['s warning] [1].

    It's my impression that younger Marx was much more fervently libertarian along with his economics, and then later stripped the freedom to a mere wishful happenstance footnote in preference for a more purely economics focus, which opened the door to the authoritarians to usurp his work, and turn it into the whole "well then we'll make them free" and "some are more equal than others" cognitively dissonant perversion.

    [1: quintessentially: "We are convinced that liberty without socialism is privilege, injustice; and that socialism without liberty is slavery and brutality," -- Mikhail Bakunin]

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago

    If either of them don’t do mutual aid their dead to me.

    is that,

    If either of them don’t do mutual, aid their dead to me.

    or

    If either of them don’t do mutual aid they're dead to me.

    ?

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  • [+] -17 points 11 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago

    How is a voluntary, non-hierarchical network for sharing resources (non-material included) with the goal of community building and creating alternative governance structures, the same but less effective as using state power to regulate capitalism and provide universal social welfare founded by taxes. Those things are hardly even connected.

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago (7 children)

    Let me be that exception! I think the best way to destroy authoritanism, is to help people become so independent of other's resources, that they can just decide to opt out of work for good. And there would be no way to strike against them that isn't blatant force or robbery (Can't cut their electricity due to bills, can't cut their food source as they grow their own, passive water generation, technical expertise, no illegal activities, small amount of passive income to cover land tax).

    They would still have small vulnerabilities, but it would be quite quite hard to force them and keep them in a toxic workplace, if they can just chill for months or even YEARS, without being forced to work. This will force workplaces to basically suck up to the average employee, increase raises, increase benefits, and oh...abuse would be completely intollerable.

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  • [–] 4 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    I think the best way to destroy authoritanism, is to help people become so independent of other’s resources, that they can just decide to opt out of work for good.

    Would you posit that one can prosper once they have become self-reliant by achieving political, economic, and military independence?

    They would still have small vulnerabilities, but it would be quite quite hard to force them and keep them in a toxic workplace, if they can just chill for months or even YEARS, without being forced to work.

    I mean, in theory, sure. But in practice, you'd need a large labor surplus that was unassailable by settler-colonialist looters. How do you marshal these reserves and defend them adequately?

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago

    Yeah, the number one issue is military capabilities, and what I fear, since I can't and won't teach them violence. I just hope there will be enough backlash if they are disturbed.

    The point isn't just to be a tough, individualist badass. The idea is that you can only have fair relationships, if there is nothing for others to leverage over you. The moment there's power dynamics, you introduce corruption. But if someone has to respect you, they can choose to leave the relationship, or compromise with you.

    Then you can trade all the surplus, make all the relationships your heart desires, from a clean slate. What they have to figure out, is how to organize and fight themselves if needed.

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  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago* (3 children)

    Yeah. Bring on the emancipatory technologies.

    All the technologies that can emancipate us, each and all.

    Y'know...

    All those technologies that are suppressed by capitalists to maintain their crippling extortionate rents that happen to be very polluting too.

    And to, oh, y'know, undo all the McCarthyian redscare psyop that conflates anarcho-communism with totalitarian communism and presents capitalism as the system that frees them.

    "Ferengi don't want to end the exploitation. They want to become the exploiters." -- Rom

    Would be a lot easier once people stop falling for all the "advertising and marketing".

    Or if someone just decides to provision everybody with spaceships of their own. Each capable of printing another of itself instantly, sustain life, with zero-point energy powered zero-inertia propulsion, safe enough for a 2 year old to fly home. I hear these already exist (for about a century now). Could have not just "disclosure", but radical provisioning sublimation. Do you have spaceships yet? And the reassurance everybody else does too so they're not trying to take yours?

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (2 children)

    I fucking would if I could. You have no idea the insane shit I tried to do that no normal person would!

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (1 child)
  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago

    Something like that. Attempted to fucking carve a 3D printer frame out of some rotten log (I was destitute, and trying to recreate the WolfStrap).

    I had no plan on how to get the metal parts.

    I also (attempted) to design something that can print itself.

    Now I'm trapped in an eternal cycle of work, like most people, and my next shot (if any), will be during retirement.

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  • [–] 90 points 11 months ago

    Australian here: can confirm that all kangaroos are tankies.

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  • [–] 19 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    Anarchocommunists in shambles.

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  • [–] 18 points 11 months ago (3 children)

    That's one hell of a furry costume

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  • [–] 18 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    Not a costume, that trash talking commie kangaroo bum is as real as it gets in X-burg. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Kangaroo_Chronicles_(film)

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  • [–] 52 points 11 months ago (11 children)

    I wish. The world would be a much better place if the left could agree until we differ

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  • [+] 27 points 11 months ago (5 children)
  • [–] 0 points 11 months ago (3 children)

    No we don't. The CIA and FBI intentionally created this culture in leftist movements, why do we need to debate and reach consensus on everything?

    We can just stop infighting, shut up about praxis and labels, and march together until we differ. It would leave us in a better place to go even further, however we might envision it

    Healthcare, lower rents, higher pay, workers rights, tax the rich. Just get on the bus, you can get off whenever you like but we can't all hold up the bus driver

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  • [+] 6 points 11 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    No, I mean this is a well documented thing that happened... They literally infiltrated leftist groups and would sow division and call for endless votes and debates on banal issues

    I am talking about intersectionality, but I don't think we should use that word. It's big and scares the common idiot. Also it has implications about being idpol, which is thoroughly tainted at this point

    I'm not saying you have to give ground... I'm talking about focus on good messaging. You don't have to throw trans people or Palestinians under the bus. You don't have to hide your positions or be apologetic either

    But we all need to focus on message discipline. We need to be evangelical. Houses. Healthcare. Food. Wages. Tax the rich. Fix our democracy

    Basically everyone agrees on the real issues, and we must be as Mumdani. He doesn't back down, he's totally unapologetic about his stances, but he doesn't get distracted

    Tight, focused messaging. Universal problems, simple to understand solutions. No pamphlets, no scary words

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  • [+] 3 points 11 months ago (1 child)
  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago

    I do agree with that, fascism is really easy to organize... Granted it always has a shelf life for the same underlying reasons

    But conservatism more broadly? It only feels that way because there's been a concentrated effort for a century to propagandize people. Liberals gave so much ground that cutting social programs and public private partnerships became the default position for both parties. There's so many lies that go uncontested... Some of the myths commonly believed about capitalism and government are insane, and that isn't an accident

    In the days of FDR it was really easy to organize for progressives... The momentum was there. People's lives were improving noticeably, they had hope for the future, and they had confidence in the leadership

    Political momentum is the key. The pendulum is shifting quickly left, so it's becoming easier to organize on the left than it's been for generations. It'll get even easier if the promises are delivered on, disenfranchised voters will need less and less convincing to mobilize

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago* (3 children)

    I'm a leftist. If capitalism was destroyed I would love to debate and implement different economic and state systems as we work to improve the lives of all people.

    But, having said that, we don't live in a world without capitalism yet. So I will support any form of resistance of a people to Imperialist powers and capitalist interest. Unfortunately, we can't put on a red hat and just support the guys with the red hats. It's why I can support certain actions of groups and states ranging from Hamas to DPRK to even parts of the EU (but never never NATO).

    This is why when there is "leftist infighting" I will almost always support the ML faction over any DemSocs or anarchist. Why? Because ML methods of resistance have been the only successful methods of resisting imperial occupation and influence that has been sustainable. If an anarchist faction destroys the state and is somehow able to defend itself from imperialist powers I'll support that too. But we have Cuba today; we have the DPRK today. Are they the types of states I want to exist? No. But they do exist.

    If another means of imperial resistance proves more effective than I will adjust my opinions and support. If your a leftist and not acknowledging the success of ML factions you're not really a leftist. Especially if you spend all your time fighting with "tankies". And if you're a ML and not willing to adjust to changes in successful resistance (especially as the empire is shaking as it is now) than you're not really a leftist but in a cult.

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  • [–] 5 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    Okay, well I disagree on the effectiveness of ML methods, they industrialized quickly but easily fell to corruption and ended up falling to capitalism

    But do we really need to debate that? I'd love to build something better than capitalism, but a glorious revolution isn't on the table.

    In the mean time, I totally agree.

    I bet we'd agree with everything possible to do right now. I think imperialism is bad, but I'm worried about the future for my friends and family. I'm worried about my neighbors, about my country, about human rights violations against my countrymen

    But I'm not going to live or die on stopping imperialism or on Palestine - we have to fix our county so we even have the ability to resist the forces of capital at home if we ever want to reign it in globally

    I don't think we should sacrifice these issues either, but I don't think we have to... I just think we have to focus on that can be done now. We're not going to unwind the World Bank and the IMF to get the global south off the debt treadmill tomorrow

    We could overturn citizens united and start trust busting tomorrow if we fix healthcare today. If we fix housing, and food availability. If we bring back social programs

    The empire is collapsing. I think that's set in stone.

    But Rome never truly fell, the people woke up the next day. The question is, do we fall into a dark age as we wait for the contradictions of capitalism to make the economy go poof, or do we wind it down gently

    I think we can make material conditions for people better, which means that when the music stops progressives will be in power and have the trust of the people

    And we can argue about how to build something better then. The next steps are the same

    If you believe in ML or aspects of it, fine. I don't care if you're a full on tankie. You can be a militant vegan or radical environmentalist too.

    But when progressives march, we all have to set down (not give ground on) our single issues to join them. Because they're the movement marching against capital right now under a banner that we can all fit under without compromising any of our goals or ideals

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago*

    they industrialized quickly but easily fell to corruption and ended up falling to capitalism

    Without mentioning they are the biggest polluters in the world. The USSR did so much damage that it's still the top in some pollution statistics.

    ML is a destroyer of worlds.

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    [–] 28 points 11 months ago (1 child)
  • [+] 26 points 11 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 12 points 11 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 23 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    Why work together towards revolution, when we can rehash century-old beefs from different material conditions? Just get out there and organize, comrades.

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  • [–] 20 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    The communism-anarchism conflict often resembles the divide between urban and rural society.

    It isn't insurmountable.

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  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago

    Yup. Sure isn't.

    Easier yet, as we can (and shall) build things differently, to what the economic imbalances of industrial capitalism drew forth. And as emancipatory technologies are availed (to each and all).

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