▲ 117 ▼ Am I wrong?? (crazypeople.online) submitted 11 months ago by hamid@crazypeople.online to c/memes@lemmy.ml 14 comments fedilink hide all child comments
[–] pineapple@lemmy.ml 12 points 11 months ago* (12 children) Why does everyone here hate Trotsky/Trotskyism? permalink fedilink source hideshow 12 child comments replies: [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 15 points 11 months ago (2 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] pineapple@lemmy.ml 5 points 11 months ago (1 child) Trotskyist orgs relentlessly bash socialist countries. I have seen this a lot. Like there are no currently succesful socialist countries. Are they just waiting for world revoluton? But I also don't want to be yet another leftist that believes there theory is the best and everyone could just end leftist fighting if they became a [insert my prefered leftist theory] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 9 points 11 months ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] pineapple@lemmy.ml 6 points 11 months ago I agree. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies) [–] sharkfucker420@lemmy.ml 14 points 11 months ago They are often incredibly stubborn and unwillingly to adapt socialist strategy to their different material conditions permalink fedilink source parent [–] rockSlayer@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 point 11 months ago Well I'm an anarchist, so a Trotskyist state is still a monopoly of violence permalink fedilink source parent [+] popcap200@lemmy.ml -9 points 11 months ago (1 child) It's lemmy. It's full of Stalinist Tankies. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] rockSlayer@lemmy.blahaj.zone 10 points 11 months ago I've mostly seen non-ml socialists and anarchists. I don't know what you've heard, but Trotsky was also ML. permalink fedilink source parent [–] zakobjoa@lemmy.world -3 points 11 months ago https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kronstadt_rebellion permalink fedilink source parent [–] Templa@beehaw.org -4 points 11 months ago (4 children) Because MLs aren't very found of other leftists that offer criticism. This makes the revolution/movement weaker so better to label them as traitors permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Objection@lemmy.ml 5 points 11 months ago (2 children) I love it when other leftists offer criticism. It makes the movement stronger, not weaker, by allowing us to root out wrong ideas or approaches. "Ruthless criticism of everything that exists," as Marx said. The problem I have with Trots is that they are incredibly obstinate about criticisms that make no fucking sense. For example, the chief Trotskyist criticism of the USSR is the whole "permanent revolution" thing, the idea of expanding the revolution globally. What that actually means is a permanent state of warfare with every other country on earth. Because supporting a revolution in another country's borders is a violation of their sovereignty. This is a completely impractical and self-destructive approach to foreign policy, and to the extent that the USSR did try to expand communism to other countries, for example, in Afghanistan, it is rightfully criticized for it. But Trots will simultaneously criticize the USSR for things like invading Afghanistan and critize it for not being expansionist enough! They're just contrarians for the sake of it. It's impossible to know what the Trotskyist position on anything is going to be unless you know the Soviet position, in which case you know it'll be the opposite. There's no actual reasoning beyond that. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Edie@lemmy.ml 4 points 11 months ago (1 child) Reminded me of this article, Trotskyists dont believe anything permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Objection@lemmy.ml 3 points 11 months ago Exactly right. permalink fedilink source parent [–] SpookyBogMonster@lemmy.ml 3 points 11 months ago As an ML, I'm quite fond of other leftists, thank you very much. While we might have our disagreements, some of them quite stark, I still get along with my Trotskyist or Anarchist friends, and their struggles are also my struggle. I might disagree with how they're going about it, but that's what critical support is for. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies)
[+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 15 points 11 months ago (2 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] pineapple@lemmy.ml 5 points 11 months ago (1 child) Trotskyist orgs relentlessly bash socialist countries. I have seen this a lot. Like there are no currently succesful socialist countries. Are they just waiting for world revoluton? But I also don't want to be yet another leftist that believes there theory is the best and everyone could just end leftist fighting if they became a [insert my prefered leftist theory] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 9 points 11 months ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] pineapple@lemmy.ml 6 points 11 months ago I agree. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies)
[–] pineapple@lemmy.ml 5 points 11 months ago (1 child) Trotskyist orgs relentlessly bash socialist countries. I have seen this a lot. Like there are no currently succesful socialist countries. Are they just waiting for world revoluton? But I also don't want to be yet another leftist that believes there theory is the best and everyone could just end leftist fighting if they became a [insert my prefered leftist theory] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 9 points 11 months ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] pineapple@lemmy.ml 6 points 11 months ago I agree. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies)
[+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 9 points 11 months ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] pineapple@lemmy.ml 6 points 11 months ago I agree. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] sharkfucker420@lemmy.ml 14 points 11 months ago They are often incredibly stubborn and unwillingly to adapt socialist strategy to their different material conditions permalink fedilink source parent
[–] rockSlayer@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 point 11 months ago Well I'm an anarchist, so a Trotskyist state is still a monopoly of violence permalink fedilink source parent
[+] popcap200@lemmy.ml -9 points 11 months ago (1 child) It's lemmy. It's full of Stalinist Tankies. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] rockSlayer@lemmy.blahaj.zone 10 points 11 months ago I've mostly seen non-ml socialists and anarchists. I don't know what you've heard, but Trotsky was also ML. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] rockSlayer@lemmy.blahaj.zone 10 points 11 months ago I've mostly seen non-ml socialists and anarchists. I don't know what you've heard, but Trotsky was also ML. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] zakobjoa@lemmy.world -3 points 11 months ago https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kronstadt_rebellion permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Templa@beehaw.org -4 points 11 months ago (4 children) Because MLs aren't very found of other leftists that offer criticism. This makes the revolution/movement weaker so better to label them as traitors permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Objection@lemmy.ml 5 points 11 months ago (2 children) I love it when other leftists offer criticism. It makes the movement stronger, not weaker, by allowing us to root out wrong ideas or approaches. "Ruthless criticism of everything that exists," as Marx said. The problem I have with Trots is that they are incredibly obstinate about criticisms that make no fucking sense. For example, the chief Trotskyist criticism of the USSR is the whole "permanent revolution" thing, the idea of expanding the revolution globally. What that actually means is a permanent state of warfare with every other country on earth. Because supporting a revolution in another country's borders is a violation of their sovereignty. This is a completely impractical and self-destructive approach to foreign policy, and to the extent that the USSR did try to expand communism to other countries, for example, in Afghanistan, it is rightfully criticized for it. But Trots will simultaneously criticize the USSR for things like invading Afghanistan and critize it for not being expansionist enough! They're just contrarians for the sake of it. It's impossible to know what the Trotskyist position on anything is going to be unless you know the Soviet position, in which case you know it'll be the opposite. There's no actual reasoning beyond that. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Edie@lemmy.ml 4 points 11 months ago (1 child) Reminded me of this article, Trotskyists dont believe anything permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Objection@lemmy.ml 3 points 11 months ago Exactly right. permalink fedilink source parent [–] SpookyBogMonster@lemmy.ml 3 points 11 months ago As an ML, I'm quite fond of other leftists, thank you very much. While we might have our disagreements, some of them quite stark, I still get along with my Trotskyist or Anarchist friends, and their struggles are also my struggle. I might disagree with how they're going about it, but that's what critical support is for. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Objection@lemmy.ml 5 points 11 months ago (2 children) I love it when other leftists offer criticism. It makes the movement stronger, not weaker, by allowing us to root out wrong ideas or approaches. "Ruthless criticism of everything that exists," as Marx said. The problem I have with Trots is that they are incredibly obstinate about criticisms that make no fucking sense. For example, the chief Trotskyist criticism of the USSR is the whole "permanent revolution" thing, the idea of expanding the revolution globally. What that actually means is a permanent state of warfare with every other country on earth. Because supporting a revolution in another country's borders is a violation of their sovereignty. This is a completely impractical and self-destructive approach to foreign policy, and to the extent that the USSR did try to expand communism to other countries, for example, in Afghanistan, it is rightfully criticized for it. But Trots will simultaneously criticize the USSR for things like invading Afghanistan and critize it for not being expansionist enough! They're just contrarians for the sake of it. It's impossible to know what the Trotskyist position on anything is going to be unless you know the Soviet position, in which case you know it'll be the opposite. There's no actual reasoning beyond that. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Edie@lemmy.ml 4 points 11 months ago (1 child) Reminded me of this article, Trotskyists dont believe anything permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Objection@lemmy.ml 3 points 11 months ago Exactly right. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Edie@lemmy.ml 4 points 11 months ago (1 child) Reminded me of this article, Trotskyists dont believe anything permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Objection@lemmy.ml 3 points 11 months ago Exactly right. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] SpookyBogMonster@lemmy.ml 3 points 11 months ago As an ML, I'm quite fond of other leftists, thank you very much. While we might have our disagreements, some of them quite stark, I still get along with my Trotskyist or Anarchist friends, and their struggles are also my struggle. I might disagree with how they're going about it, but that's what critical support is for. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] SpookyBogMonster@lemmy.ml 7 points 11 months ago Trotsky's take on the peasantry was wrong af though permalink fedilink source
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