The Internet Archive is a good project.
However, like most tech obsessives, they still don't understand, or perhaps care about, consent.
The Internet Archive is a good project.
However, like most tech obsessives, they still don't understand, or perhaps care about, consent.
I'm glad the lawsuits didn't kill them but what Kahle tried to do with "Open Library" and "Project 78" was truly insane. Admirable but insane. They absolutely had to know right from the outset that the Media Companies weren't going to allow it to continue post-COVID.
If amazon can download books I can also against what's missing from thw archive
Indeed, I consider this to be an okay outcome. It's the Internet Archive, not the All Information Ever Archive. It archives the Internet. There are other projects archiving books.
And it's the Internet Archive, not the Internet Barely Disguised Pirate Bay. I'm okay if the data they're archiving isn't super easy to access by everyone all the time, as long as it's being preserved. Someday eventually copyright law might become sane again, at which point these archives can come out of their bunkers. Until then those bunkers are important for keeping them safe.
I really think the Internet Archive did a downright stupid thing poking this bear with a stick. I'm relieved they survived and I hope they learned from the experience.
You archive it but don't publish it.
It's the approach I've been advocating for for years now, throughout this whole lawsuit circus. I got a lot of downvotes for it over the years too, people couldn't separate my position from capitulation.
Really, it's just a matter of fighting the battles you can win and not fighting the battles that will annihilate you simply on the basis of principle. The analogy I kept using was a man carrying a precious and fragile treasure going up to a bear and whacking it with a stick, and then acting like we should be sympathetic to them as they desperately scream about how the precious treasure was at risk now that the bear was eating their leg.
They should be focusing on protecting that treasure. Let the EFF take the bear on, that's what they are for.
Yes, the archiving and republishing would be illegal in most countries, but not in the US. Fair Use
They didn't face trouble over archiving the net, but over digitally lending e-books and audio.
Had a similar conversation over in Mastodon recently and yeah, this is a very fair point. The indiscriminate scanning and publication of copyrighted books shouldn’t have happened in the first place, especially when there are existing ecosystems for ethical lending/leasing/borrowing of books already in place, which benefit and are working with authors/publishers already.
You mean in term of internet archives mission and where it can do the most good? I would agree.
I have mixed feelings. I'm glad they survived the lawsuits, and now they can spend their funding on their actual goals rather than it going towards lawyers.
On the other hand, it's really sad that they had to delete so much of their archive - over half a million books, and a bunch of recordings from their Great 78 Project (which was archiving 300k+ music albums released between ~1900 and 1950). A lot of the things that can't be archived are eventually going to become lost media.
I really hope that they didn't actually delete anything, and only just removed public access.
And open themselves up to massive penalties? That would be beyond stupid.
I wouldn't think a library/archive retaining data in an offline form would incur penalties, and I feel like preserving books for the future is the opposite of stupid.
Preserving is important, sure. But if the settlement required them to delete it and they keep an offline backup and this ever gets out, the settlement is voided and it opens up a world of hurt for them.
This is not a debate about the merits of preservation but about legal repercussions for the Internet Archive.
I'm 95% sure the settlement with the publishers would have included a clause requiring the Internet Archive to delete all "infringing" material in their possession.
what's your methodology for that 95% figure? because Internet Archive themselves mention no such clause:
The lawsuit only concerns our book lending program. The injunction clarifies that the Publisher Plaintiffs will notify us of their commercially available books, and the Internet Archive will expeditiously remove them from lending. Additionally, Judge Koeltl also signed an orderin favor of the Internet Archive, agreeing with our request that the injunction should only cover books available in electronic format, and not the publishers’ full catalog of books in print
Because this case was limited to our book lending program, the injunction does not significantly impact our other library services. The Internet Archive may still digitize books for preservation purposes, and may still provide access to our digital collections in a number of ways, including through interlibrary loan and by making accessible formats available to people with qualified print disabilities. We may continue to display “short portions” of books as is consistent with fair use—for example, Wikipedia references (as shown in the image above). The injunction does not affect lending of out-of-print books. And of course, the Internet Archive will still make millions of public domain texts available to the public without restriction.
the judgement did not require they delete the books from their archives, only that they stop lending out digital copies of books fitting specific criteria. which should be obvious because possession not copyright infringement, reproduction/distribution is.
in fact, the judgement specfically allows Internet Archive to continue to use those books "for the purpose of accessibility for 'eligible persons'"
Distributed archives seem to be the way forward. It's much harder to take something down if it's spread across the globe and not controlled by a single entity
It's also much harder to guarantee preservation with distributed archive. Example: torrents with 0 seeders.
That's why you need more people and spread the word. If enough people and devices are dedicated to the archival probably cess, the safer it is
So 5 times more overhead to guarantee the safety of data, that is x5 more cost cause it's not like regular people have servers with lots of memory just sitting at their homes.
There are some around. I know of https://annas-archive.org/ at least
But Kahle said the lawsuits against IA showed that “massive multibillion-dollar media conglomerates” have their own interests in controlling the flow of information. “That’s what they really succeeded at—to make sure that Wikipedia readers don’t get access to books,” Kahle said.
And that's why I hate copyright.
There is nothing more evil than actively fighting to ensure people have less access to knowledge in the future.
Good read.
It's a bummer to see AI gobbling up entire books and often misrepresenting them but then IA can't provide the source material.
I'm glad their very ill advised move didn't kill the entire internet archive project.
If they are going to do something so reckless again they should make it a totally new project not attached to the internet archive at all.
They might not get so lucky again in the future
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