[Dormant] moved to !shermanposting@piefed.social

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[–] RoidingOldMan@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (11 children)

Not defending it, but I think for them it means pride in their region/area/heritage. And it's not about anything deeper than that. It's like a college sports team for them. Like the rich white fan base for Duke, and UNC being just a couple miles away.

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[–] glimse@lemmy.world 21 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Personally I'd be ashamed of my regional heritage if the only thing that made it different was slavery..

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[–] baldingpudenda@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Looking at the south, there's not much else they can be proud of. Mississippi was god's mistake. Luckily its surrounded by other shithole states. It's like having warning signs before you enter a danger zone.

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[–] FriskyDingo@sh.itjust.works 4 points 1 year ago (1 child)

That's quite a bit reductive. We have a lively history of activisim, resistance and rebellion along with the modern cultural influences and destination cities that people flock to far before the fly over states

Half tongue-in-cheek.

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[–] baldingpudenda@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

Ima be real with ya. I just like dunking on the traitorous bastards. The Mississippi joke is lifted from Chris rock

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[–] Madison420@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago

It's not, it's specifically celebrating racist traitorous losers.

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[–] AlexanderTheDead@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

It's not about heritage. It's not like only southerners fly the flag. Really, I blame Dukes of Hazard.

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[–] Tiger666@lemmy.ca 3 points 1 year ago* (1 child)

That is exactly why you see them at Klan rallies.

Edit: Also in Canada in the province of Alberta they fly the Confederate flag. Lots of historical pride in Canada for Confederate losers. /s

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[–] jj4211@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

Of course the Klan also flies the US flag.

Culturally in the rural south, a lot goes into convincing as many people as possible that the civil war had little to do with racism and instead it was about the elite northerners vaguely bossing the poor southerners around.

As a consequence, they get that flag flown by a fair number of oblivious people that either worship some idealized vision of the antebellum south or just in general people saying "being a rebel is cool".

Like Dukes of Hazard fans largely treated it as a symbol of generic righteous rebellion rather than referring to the core principles of the conflict that created the flag.

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[–] CaptPretentious@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago (1 child)

You can be proud of your state/region/etc. without being specifically proud of traitor, enemy state... that lasted what ~4 years? People would rightly be upset if someone few an Al-Qaeda, or ISIS flag, or a Nazi flag, etc. The confederate flag, IMO, is no different. Someone can be from the countries these places operate(d) out of, without supporting, these groups.

And to claim that ~4 years as heritage... that's a bit of a stretch. But also, problematic IMO. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/heritage This to me, implies, these people are still actively trying to trade and own human lives.

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[–] rottingleaf@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago

I think I've read that the Confederate flag specifically was one of the flags of Tennessee, so a bit older.

Anyway, I've never been in the USA.

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[–] Breezy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

Fuck naw lots wear their racism proudly.

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[–] Heikki@lemm.ee 26 points 1 year ago (6 children)

I always love when a "It's my heritage" person argues the US Civil War was about "States Rights".

I always ask, "States rights to do what? Many of the states expressed a desire to own slaves in the seceeding documents and in their states constitution."

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[–] NOT_RICK@lemmy.world 15 points 1 year ago* (2 children)

I always start with “do you know what primary source material is?” Because it’s an innocuous question and you can usually get them to agree that looking at material from people at the time is a worthy pursuit. That’s when you can read the confederate states’ succession acts to them and watch their argument blow up like the Hindenburg.

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[–] jballs@sh.itjust.works 10 points 1 year ago (1 child)

I actually did exactly that a few years ago! I was at a neighbor's house and he mentioned that he had heard the civil war actually wasn't about slavery, but was about states rights. So I told him to read the South Carolina Declaration of Secession .

To my neighbor's credit, he actually sat there and read it and then went "oh so it actually was about slavery."

Unfortunately, I can't report that this was a huge epiphany that changed his overall views or way of thinking. This was around the time that Obama was getting his supreme court pick blocked, and my neighbor is still as Republican as ever to this day.

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[–] jj4211@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

Yeah, my education growing up featured pro-confederacy curriculum pretty hard. It sums up as "The union didn't ban slavery at all until midway into the war, and even then only for rebelling states to scare the union border states into staying with the union to keep their slaves".

Of course, they had to really gloss over the various declarations of secession, some of the legislative moves of the period, and the Lincoln-Douglas debates. But in exchange there was just so much support from the daughters/sons of the confederacy... Sure they could point out how much the Union was slow-walking change, but it was absurd that we were taught that slavery was at most a footnote as to why the war kicked off.

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[–] nexguy@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago

Also ask, "my heritage" or "party of Lincoln". Which is it because it can't be both.

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[–] barneypiccolo@lemm.ee 6 points 1 year ago (1 child)

Exactly. The Civil War- era Constitutions of the Southern states ALL mentioned the right to keep slavery as one of their first, if not the first, reason for secession.

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[–] Bronzebeard@lemm.ee 5 points 1 year ago

And the Confederacy actually forbid any of it's member states from ever banking slavery.

So "states rights" was always a lie. The South actively fought against state authority.

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[+] kadaverin0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 16 points 1 year ago (1 child)

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[–] buddascrayon@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago*

It's part of the bullshit narrative they've been trying to sell for fucking YEARS. That the Confederacy rose up on an issue of states rights and not slavery. Then they conveniently forget what right the Confederate states were fighting to keep... spoilers, it was slavery.

Edit: and in case you are thinking this is just a Republican narrative, it's not. Democrats have repeated this bullshit too. Hell, the fucking West Wing actually had an episode where they repeated that bullshit, and had the audacity to have a black actress actually deliver it.

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[–] SkunkWorkz@lemmy.world 16 points 1 year ago

Under the Confederacy people with his lastname would be third class citizens.

[–] RoidingOldMan@lemmy.world 39 points 1 year ago

Pete Hegseth has white nationalist tattoos. What's amazing is that Trump will hire losers who only get 614 views on social media. At least Hegseth and many others were on TV, so they at least were qualified enough to work at Fox.

[–] lemmy_get_my_coat@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago

How dare you bring lemmings into this

[–] wuphysics87@lemmy.ml 9 points 1 year ago

I am proud to be among my fellow lemmings 👍

[–] shalafi@lemmy.world 16 points 1 year ago (4 children)

You've all missed the point here, by a mile.

"any public building now flying the Ukrainian flag..."

And what fucking buildings would those be? He's drumming up anti-Ukraine feelings. Money says there are replies talking about how fucked up it is that the government is doing something it's not fucking doing.

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[–] defaultusername@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Gotta love how the entire Republican party quickly turned anti-Ukraine/pro-Russia after Putin whispered sweet nothings into Trump's ear.

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[–] jj4211@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago (2 children)

The conservatives were being anti-Ukraine from day 1 of the invasion, they didn't even wait for Trump to be relevant again.

Russia has a lot of the conservative leadership and media hooked even without Trump.

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[–] defaultusername@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

Oh? I very vaguely remember MAGA being pro-Ukraine for a short period of time after Russia attacked them and started the war.

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[–] jj4211@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

At least conservative media at least tried to declare we have no reason to support Ukraine.

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[–] barneypiccolo@lemm.ee 8 points 1 year ago

MAGA Nazis - Frequently wrong, never in doubt.

[–] Bronzebeard@lemm.ee 6 points 1 year ago

That's not the Confederate battle flag, this is 🏳️

[–] MehBlah@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago (4 children)

That flag is more than hate speech. Its the losers flag. Its a easy way to spot losers.

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[–] barneypiccolo@lemm.ee 7 points 1 year ago (3 children)

The Confederate flag is nothing less than a symbol of TREASON. Anyone who displays it is a Traitor, and a racist who wishes that black people (and other minorities) were still enslaved. Any other interpretation beyond that is a lie.

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[–] MehBlah@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago* (2 children)

I can't tell. Are you saying it isn't a losers flag or are you agreeing?

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[–] barneypiccolo@lemm.ee 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

Worse, it's a Traitor's flag. I can respect a true enemy who is fighting to protect the sovereignty of his country, even if he is an enemy. But I will NEVER respect a Traitor, who is fighting to protect their ability to abuse and subjugate other people.

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[–] MehBlah@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago

Its just a loser flag to me. It hurts their feelings more than traitor flag. This guy running a roadside vegetable stand had a loser three flags up during trump first term. A American flag, The loser flag and a christian flag. The loser flag was replaced by a state flag when Biden was in office . Now that felon 47 is back in office he is back to using the loser flag.

On the way to work he is a American loser christian. On the way home he is a christian loser American. He is far from the only loser to fly that flag down here.

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[–] Bytemeister@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

The War of Northern Agression was about States Rights!

What about States Rights not to assist I.C.E. with illegally rounding up people without cause?

No! They have to follow Trump's orders. He's the President!

So you don't actually care about state rights. You just want to opress people who aren't white.

[–] melsaskca@lemmy.ca 4 points 1 year ago

I'm going to have to re-watch "The Dukes of Hazard" again. It's all fuzzy now as to who were the good guys. /s

[–] DarkFuture@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

I guess this is the point in the history books where the future finds out if America has the balls to deal with traitors or not.

86:47

[+] hopesdead@startrek.website -7 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Well if you knew your history, you’d know that was the battle flag, not the national flag.

[–] Eheran@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago

But how does that make it better? And what has Ukraine to do with it?

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[–] Bronzebeard@lemm.ee 2 points 1 year ago

... That IS what he called it...