I've wrote this post to discuss if we can infer intelligence from the inside of the machine. I've my own view on the topic, maybe this is something that you folks could enjoy the read.

All feedback is welcome.

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[–] 2 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (4 children)

How is this thought experiment different from Platos allegory of the cave?

I.e. "if someone grew up in a cubicle..."

So the answer is, perhaps surprisingly to some, yes.

I can directly observe my own thought processes because I am inside the system generating them. You cannot; you can only infer my intelligence from my behavior. Likewise, an intelligence instantiated inside a machine may have first-person access to its own cognition, while an outside observer can only infer intelligence from its outputs and mechanisms.

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 2 months ago (3 children)

    How is this thought experiment different from Platos allegory of the cave?

    Not sure if I follow. My point with the Chinese Room experiment focus on the idea that the "machine can't have a mind", and that even without a mind it can "display intelligence" (even without it). Almost like the semantics over concept.

    While Plato is about the real world and the projected world. Not sure if they are the same, but can be close enough.

    Ps.: Also, I'm not super familiar with the Plato Cave, I know about it, but didn't read the originals like most in this specific place.

    I can directly observe my own thought processes because I am inside the system generating them. You cannot [...]

    Totally agree with you.
    But when you are bounded by a rulebook, the "thought processes" is irrelevant, point of the post.

    But for the observer outside of the box it will still look like "magic", or "intelligence" when there is nothing intelligent there, just rules.

    My point is, even if the machine does have a inner person, it yet don't use this to communicate, since it only use the manual to translate symbols that carry meaning to us, but no meaning to the machine. And thus the agency that I want the companies behind the machine to have it, instead of "oops the machine did, we didn't knew about it, sowwy"

    But I may have misunderstood your point in this whole thing.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 month ago* (2 children)

    So thas exactly why I brought up Plato. And I think the song and lyrics do an excellent job summarizing,

    Your title asks whether we can infer intelligence. Verbatim. The answer to that is, again, yes. We do it constantly.

    You cannot directly observe my intelligence or thoughts. You observe my behavior, language, problem-solving, etc., and infer intelligence from those outputs. The same applies to a machine.

    The Chinese Room raises a different question: whether apparently intelligent behavior is sufficient to establish understanding or semantic content. That is not the same as asking whether intelligence can be inferred.

    Saying "it's just following rules" doesn't setkle that question either. Humans are also physical systems whose cognition is implemented through mechanisms. The existence of rules or mechanisms does not itself show that intelligence is absent.

    So becaus your question is specifically "can we infer intelligence?", yes.

    Now, If the question is "does intelligent-looking behavior prove semantic understanding or consciousness?", that's a different and much harder question. But most importantly, it's not the question you asked.

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  • [–] [S] 2 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    Holy molly, that was an amazing summary.

    Thanks very much. I've even more questions now, and for sure I'll take some time researching on the topic of evaluating the understanding (and semantics on this sense).

    But you are right, we can infer intelligence, we can't guarantee the semantics on the topic.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago

    In short, Plato’s Allegory of the Cave imagines people who have spent their entire lives chained inside a cave, able to see only shadows projected on a wall. Because the shadows are all they have ever known, they mistake them for reality itself.

    One prisoner escapes and discovers the outside world, realizing that what everyone in the cave took to be reality was only a limited representation of it.

    The core idea is that our perspective can constrain what we think is real or knowable. We may be interpreting appearances without access to the fuller reality that produces them.

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  • 4 comments in c/fuck_ai@lemmy.world view that post
    [–] 3 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

    I went to a library book sale this weekend and I found a very old book called “Electronic Life: How to Think About Computers,” which was published in I think 1975? I’ve been reading it kind of like how I would read a historical document, and it’s lowkey fascinating.

    There’s a whole paragraph that’s like “okay, find the keyboard. Don’t panic if it has more keys than a typewriter, that’s normal. Really, it’s fine. The extra keys don’t make things harder. It’s FINE”

    Thought this section was particularly interesting: Can the computer create something? At first glance it seems obvious that it can. Animated computer graphics, with their fluid transitions and whiplash perspectives, look strikingly new. And if one watches the machine doing animation work, there seem to be lengthy periods when the computer is acting “on its own.” But if one observes these processes in more detail, it becomes clear that creation is not occurring within the machine. First of all, computer graphics are not unique. Computers have yet to generate anything that cannot be done by hand—and usually already has been done. Second, the apparent ability of the computer to “act on its own” is the outcome of thousands of hours of patient human effort to refine its instructions. The computer can manipulate a shape for us if we have already informed it what a shape is, what the rules for shape manipulation are, what this specific shape is, and so forth. You can start an automobile engine and it will run by itself, too, but that doesn’t mean it’s being creative. It’s just running.

    Somebody in 1975 had a better understanding of why artificial intelligence is not in any way “intelligence” than the majority of today’s intellectual minds.

    This is from a Tumblr post which I'll link at the end and it's food for thought. Because the way the general public think about Generative AI LLM'S is absolutely being spun by the people trying to sell it to the masses. That's why arguments like this don't get any traction.

    https://www.tumblr.com/smol-blue-bird/718439525090803712?source=share

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    Sorry this probably isn't the kind of engagement you're looking for, but I absolutely HATE the way the article text keeps swapping between 'AI' and 'LLM' in real time.

    I get what you're trying to do, but every time the text swaps it forces the whole paragraph to realign and it makes me lose my place while reading. It also made me think I was going crazy the first time it happened, which is maybe not the vibe you want in an article about intelligence.

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