I mean by useless is it's so slow you can't make games or even big projects for GUI, only you can do is AI/ML, Data Science, and basic stuff. I think Rust is better because of its speed and language capabilities?

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[–] 34 points 2 months ago (3 children)

Betteridge's law of headlines:

Any headline that ends in a question mark can be answered by the word no

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago* (2 children)

    Demonstrably false, there are many cases where the answer is yes... it's just that there's also a lot of no.

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  • [–] 9 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    Obviously. It is, however, a good heuristic. The headlines that can be answered in the affirmative are very much in the minority

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  • [–] 24 points 2 months ago (6 children)

    Saying one programming language is better than another is ignorant; it's like arguing a screwdriver is better than a wrench.

    Each language has their strengths and weaknesses that make them better at some tasks and worse at other. Python's strength is ease of development. Performance isn’t a big concern if you just want to quickly develop the app you want.

    Rust might be more performant, but if development takes twice as long and the app only runs once or a few times, that benefit is unrealized.

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  • [+] [S] -10 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    "Python’s strength is ease of development"

    That's what I usually see with Python. I think that's the reason people should choose it.

    "Performance isn’t a big concern if you just want to quickly develop the app you want."

    You're correct with that, but if your project is to make a touch screen app for fast food restaurant, now you're wrong because of Python's performance.

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  • [+] -6 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    Please point at the strengths of BASIC and Forth over, let's say, C++.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 months ago

    Forth is powerful while still being very easy to interpret. This makes it a great bootstrapping step.
    It's also used as a scripting language in some embedded system, it might be telescopes but I'm not sure. While forth wouldn't be my first choice there, I don't want to be able to crashed the device because I have hot swapped in a binary, compiled with the wrong flags.

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  • [–] 12 points 2 months ago

    OP must be cold because he seems to really like flame wars

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  • [–] 10 points 2 months ago* (1 child)

    …Have you tried ML projects in Rust?

    I mean, ML/data science devs use Python because the bajillion underlying libraries and implementations are already there.

    It’s not perfect. But that’s fine, because it’s a pretty good prototyping language for researchers, and anything performance sensitive is done in libraries anyway.


    If you want a real world example, see: Mistral.rs vs vllm.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 months ago

    PyTorch in particular is literally just a dispatching front end for CUDA anyway. It's actually an incredibly powerful tool for GPGPU development, and you will struggle to make faster GPU DSP by hand.

    People making these arguments are just incredibly out of date. You can basically use python to trace super optimized GPU compute kernels and then drop them into whatever language you want via torchscript, onnx, trt, whatever.

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  • [–] 10 points 2 months ago (10 children)

    I don't like python personally, but saying its useless is quite far detached from reality considering all the python projects.

    You can argue its slow and i would agree, but if people make alot of stuff with it its clearly not useless.

    A programing language cannot be better than another one because its personal opinion.

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  • [+] [S] -7 points 2 months ago (9 children)

    if people make alot of stuff with it its clearly not useless

    You're correct, but we cannot avoid that it's limites to basic stuff, you can't make a facebook with pytho with good speed.

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  • [–] 7 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    Originally Facebook was made with php...

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  • [–] -1 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (2 children)

    Unfortunately, I don't think that this is a useful argument because from what I understand, php is significantly faster than python.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    Likely depends on what exactly you are doing

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  • [–] 0 points 2 months ago

    Sure, there will always be exceptions for certain use-cases, but my understanding is that PHP is faster that python in most cases. By the way, I didn't say that to put python down, but just to point out that php wasn't a good argument to defend python. Python itself is a good argument to defend python. See my parallel reply to yours, where I point out that Instagram and Threads both use python for their back-ends.

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  • I mean I'm posting from PyLova (Python-based and it's been mostly good. I was truly skeptical of the viability of a Python-based Fediverse platform when PieFed first dropped, and I'm still skeptical of Python over Rust from a purely technical perspective, but it's been smooth sailing on this instance so far 🤷

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

    you can’t make a facebook with pytho with good speed

    You may want to check your assumptions. Facebook's back-end was developed with PHP, probably because it was the most popular web back-end language when it was originally developed. However, two later Meta products, Instagram and Threads, used Python for their back-end. Source: https://engineering.fb.com/2023/09/07/culture/threads-inside-story-metas-newest-social-app/

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  • [–] 4 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    Yes. I dunno about Rust, but Julia is a very similar to Python but much better.

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  • [–] 6 points 2 months ago

    No. Next question.

    (insert spongebob meme showing the fat dude a bunch of big python projects upon which many things run in this world)

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago

    i think a key consideration is wether there are alot of developer for the lang.
    a foss project will grow faster if its written in rust,js,cpp,python

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago (5 children)

    No games? Mount and Blade was written in python

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago (4 children)

    Was it though? Or is it like other things "written in Python" where all of the heavy work is handled by C libraries?

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    Python itself is just a program written in c, every time you do len(string) you are calling out of the python interpreter into compiled c code. The distinction between python wrapped c library and a python lib can be fuzzy.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago

    That's not what I'm talking about. Things like "numpy" which are actually written with a fair amount of C for performance. Or pandas which uses Cython to trans-pile Python to C to compile.

    It's not "pure python".

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    I hate this argument on principal, if I write a game with Pygame, it's written in Python not C.

    Balatro is written in Lua not C just because Love uses SDL.

    This is like saying Python, CPP, JS, PHP, LUA, Perl, Dart, C# and Java are just written in C.

    This is like saying Rust isn't a real language because it relies on LLVM which is written with C/CPP.

    If I split the lua code in balatro from the SDL library, I don't have a game anymore.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago

    Why do you feel a need to be able to claim that something is "written in Lua" or "Python" when it's using native libraries? Many games are using a mix of languages these days. There's no shame in it and I didn't imply there is.

    People get very confused over this thinking that "Python is very fast at number crunching" because of things like numpy which is written partly in C to achieve that performance.

    This is like saying Rust isn’t a real language because it relies on LLVM which is written with C/CPP.

    That's entirely different - I'm not talking about the interpreter or compiler. Just the runtime code.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago

    Python is the 2nd best language for any task.

    You can learn niche langs for specific cases. Go for it.

    Me, a python dev, will find an API to your subroutines.

    PS. import antigravity

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