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[–] 74 points 1 year ago (69 children)

I think it’s about time the press and protesters start showing up strapped. These people clearly don’t have any fear and are just power tripping on people for simply being there. Put the fear of God back into these pigs.

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  • [–] 27 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    The people of sh.it.just.works and Lemmy.world both loved to try and act like I was out of line for calling for open carry the other night. Unfortunately California state law doesn’t allow for it. I think that it’s the only way to get them to back off with the Marines, the National Guard and with ICE though. If they’re not going to be afraid of us then they’re never going to change and the people saying “don’t give them a reason to escalate” will keep saying that up to the first battles at which point they’ll run and cower.

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  • [–] 39 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Fun fact, the real wave of gun restrictions started with the Black Panthers open carrying in California back in in the 60s.

    https://www.history.com/articles/black-panthers-gun-control-nra-support-mulford-act

    That led to the Mulford Act:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mulford_Act

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  • [–] 19 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    The state law made by fucking Reagan and should thusly be ignored.

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  • [–] 26 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Uncomfortable truth: violence has solved some of the largest issues across the history of humanity.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago*

    Violence didn’t create war or genocide, those are a result of nationalism and racism, respectively. Violence is the means used to accomplish the goal, but the motivation is what does the creating.

    To be clear I’m not pro-violence or something, but it is kinda funny to me when you hear “violence is the answer” and open a history book to see time and time again that violence is the answer for quite a few problems.

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  • [+] 16 points 1 year ago (9 children)
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  • [–] 16 points 1 year ago (46 children)

    Escalation to violence is exactly what they want. It gives them all the justification they need to invoke the Insurrection Act, declare martial law and suspend your Constitutional rights. And not just in California.

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  • [–] 35 points 1 year ago

    I didn’t say start blasting. Right wingers show up strapped all the time showing they mean business and are given plenty of space as a consequence. The cops can do the same for other Americans. If they can’t then it shows the public that it was never about individual rights and all about allowing one group they favor to get away with it.

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  • [–] 20 points 1 year ago

    Where does the goal post moving stop? It’s not an escalation of violence if you don’t use it. It’s a threat to escalate to violence. If they aren’t afraid of you then they’re not going to change.

    When they declare martial law are you going to be saying the same thing and hoping by just chanting loudly you change their mind?

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  • [–] 22 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (18 children)

    Protesters urged not to give trump administration pretext for what it is already doing

    edit: Oh, what the hell. Let's add a snippet.

    Los Angeles Mayor Karen Bass publicly urged protesters Monday not to give the Trump administration any pretext for what they’re already doing and will keep doing no matter what. “Angelenos—don’t engage in violence and give the administration an excuse to inflict all the damage they have been inflicting carte blanche for months on end,” said Bass, adding that Trump and his team are just looking for a reason to respond with violence, as they would have done whether or not any of this happened.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago* (4 children)

    He's already ordered soldiers in, who have shot journalists and protestors

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    It's looking pretty inevitable at this point.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    All it takes is a single police officer to put on plain clothes and to throw a brick. They do that on the regular, let’s stop this “don't do ANYTHING disruptive or could be considered violent! It will escalate!” Nonsense

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    The expectation that nothing should happen is a fever dream. All your worry is for nothing, what happens will happen, and the only thing you can do is what you can do. If it comes to civil war, that was a decision made by those in power, and is seeming inevitable at this point.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    They only people 'wishing for a civil war' are the Trump administration.

    "The revolution will be bloodless if the left allows it to be." - some Heritage Foundation ghoul

    You defend yourself, or you die.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Why would I reject the good timeline where the fascist superpower has a civil war instead of destroying the world?

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  • [–] 18 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (13 children)

    So what? Do you just watch until you're being herded into concentration camps anyway? This is the first instance of effective resistance to Trump (the April parades don't count) since January and they're calling in the Marines already. This was simply never going to end peacefully, because any effective act of mass resistance was going to be suppressed violently; avoiding escalation means avoiding resistance.

    Edit: This person is not arguing in good faith. I cornered them in this thread and they claimed that ICE won't shoot people unless provoked and then that they're shooting people to provoke an escalation. Their argument seems to hinge on the idea that rubber bullets are harmless pranks you should just suck up.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (11 children)

    Neither Trump nor his followers give a flying fuck about legal justifications, and any so-called moderate who cares about that is a fascist in denial. Solidarity is indispensible when fighting tyranny, and solidarity demands that when members of your community are being kidnapped by the Gestapo you fight back, not watch and cry about legal justifications.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (9 children)

    Look, if your strategy and tactics prevent you from protecting your own neighbors you've already lost the plot.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (8 children)

    How does getting your neighbors killed, "protect" them? Those people are already doing enough to protect their neighbors right now. How would starting an all-out civil war, protect anyone?

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (7 children)

    Those people are already doing enough to protect their neighbors right now.

    My point is that continuing that is the escalation you're talking about. Consider the following situation: ICE comes for person X and group Y shows up. Y refuse to hand over X, at which point ICE threatens to shoot them if they don't comply. What should Y do here? Hand over X? Peacefully get shot? Shoot back?

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    ICE is not going to start shooting people unless they are threatened with violence.

    You do realize they're shooting protesters right as we speak right? That's literally why we're having this conversation.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (4 children)

    Lol! I can't believe I need to say this...rubber bullets are not the same thing as live rounds. And they are using them, in order to escalate the situation. They want the protesters to fight back, in order to give them the excuse they need to take it to the next level. Which is exactly why they need to keep their shit together.

    If those protesters give them what they want, then people will actually start getting hurt, for real. Stop pretending like we're already there. That kind of hyperbolic drama is entirely unhelpful.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (3 children)

    Good job moving the goalposts, I almost didn't notice it.

    ICE is not going to start shooting people unless they are threatened with violence.

    -you.

    I now have every reason to believe you're not debating in good faith given that you just fucking lied so I'll disengage, but before I leave you do realize that they're sending people to the hospital right as we speak right? Rubber bullets can hurt, they can blind and, especially at close range, they can fucking kill.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)

    Buddy, you're the one not arguing in good faith, if you are saying that rubber bullets and live rounds are the same thing. If you don't understand the difference between lethal and non-lethal ammunition, then you're right...there is no point in talking about this any further.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago* (1 child)

    If everyone is reading this far down, this person has lost the plot the moment they said rubber bullets are "non-lethal". To repeat myself, this is blatantly untrue; they're called "less-lethal ammunitions" because they can still kill you. You can still die if a cop shoots you with a rubber bullet. Stay safe out there everyone.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    Man, why are you even having this argument when you are this ignorant about what these terms mean?

    Do you understand the difference between "lethal" and "non-lethal" in the context of basic crowd control tactics?

    For that matter, do you understand the difference in classification between a "protest" and a "riot"?

    And are you even aware of your rights in either of those scenarios, and what tactics the police are authorized to use?

    Because if you don't understand these concepts, then you are simply bullshitting your way through this conversation. And at this point, it really seems like that's the case. If you do understand these concepts and are still making this argument, then you are being completely disingenuous.

    As I said...if you aren't going to argue in good faith, then what's the point? You're just pretending to be stupid, at this point.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Escalation to violence is exactly what they want.

    Are you sure? It seems like the escalation is what they don't want. And that's why they're having to call in the marines to try and scare people back into submission.

    Passive acquiescence and blind obedience is what they want. That's why the news media is so eager to label these protests as abnormal, intolerable, and anti-American. If the conservatives wanted protests, they wouldn't be so eager to censor the protests' advocates and so worried about valorizing these opposition efforts.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    Problem is the situation won't improve without an escalation

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    We had six months without protests. The administration seemed happy to escalate in their absence.

    What if these protests aren't what's driving public policy? What if the problem is the administration itself and not the people reacting to the violence they're inflicting on the locals?

    And ask yourself this. If ICE came into your city, what kind of community would you want to live in? One where your neighbors took to the streets to shut down the police convoys and scare off these thugs? Or one where friendly neighbors locked their doors and hid, while reactionary neighbors singled you out for the police to grab?

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    I’m opposed to citizens being the ones to escalate the situation.

    "Stop resisting! Stop resisting!"

    Don’t just hand him an excuse.

    The excuse was the existence of Hispanic people in Paramount, California. Everything that followed was a consequence of Trump's bigoted pogrom against Latinos.

    Make them look like the bullies they are.

    They already do. But slapping the "bully" bumper sticker on an ICE truck full of your neighbors does nothing to get them out of that truck.

    What the people of LA are doing is so much more than optics. They are actively saving lives and guarding their friends and neighbors from police violence.

    They are resisting in the most material and direct way anyone can ask.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    If they want escalation then they can take it when ever they want. Police just wear plain clothes and throw a brick. Bam and done, at this point it’s best to just assume violence and act accusingly, it’s not like the media are impartial.

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