There is this thing where conservatives call Democratic people liberals as a pejorative. This is nonsense though as most conservatives very much support liberal structures like the system of law.

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[–] zoloftt@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (8 children)

I swear. You get on the Internet and people just want to be angry and espouse their views without understanding what they've read in the first place.

I explained what I believe the reasoning behind the parent comment is. Nothing more. I'm not stating my personal belief or understanding of the word.

I KNOW what a liberal is by definition. It's NOT USED THAT WAY in the USA common discourse.

People talking about their progressive circles and how the word "liberal" gets used are missing my point too. I'm not talking about correct usage, I'm taking about common usage. The news, day to day conversation with people outside your bubble.

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[–] Doomsider@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago* (7 children)

What you refer to as the common usage in the US is not common amongst anyone but ignorant conservatives. I clarified that for you.

Amongst many Democratic people the word is generally viewed as positive.

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[–] zoloftt@lemmy.world 1 point 1 day ago* (3 children)

Amongst many Democratic people the word is generally viewed as positive.

Are all Dems conservative in your view then? Or did you mean something else by this?

The news, co-workers, and people I've talked to out and about in the 5 different states I've lived in or regularly visit use it to mean ANYTHING "left".

Edit: fixed some typos

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[–] Doomsider@lemmy.world 1 point 23 hours ago (2 children)

Yes, that is very common usage of the word for ignorant conservatives. I lived for five years on SE rural Idaho and liberal there was an insult.

I grew up in Seattle and there liberal wasn't an insult because most people knew what it actually means.

So essentially liberal is a bad word for progressives who view them as fake for a number of reasons and conservatives who don't understand what the word means but dislike it because they were told it was bad word.

Most Democratic people are conservative and would be considered traditionally liberal. The strict definition of liberal is rooted in classical liberalism, emphasizing individual rights, democracy, a secular state, and free-market capitalism with limited government interference.

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[–] zoloftt@lemmy.world 0 points 23 hours ago (1 child)

Ok, and I'm not talking about whether it's an insult or not? You are spending a lot of time trying to explain the word to me. I know what it means, I know how it's used by various groups. I know a lot of Dems are true Liberals or neo-libs.

I'm talking about whether or not people treat it as a synonym for "left" or "progressive". A lot of the USA does! Not just conservatives. Just normal everyday people who do not live in philosophical circles.

I've lived in Cali, New Mexico, various parts of Texas, Colorado and regularly visit Michigan and parts of the East Coast.

Aside from my Progressive friends that are trying to start a commune in Detroit, no one else uses the word "liberal" by definition. The Detroit commune even uses the word "liberal" when they are talking to "normies" because explaining socialism to others is HARD.

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[–] Doomsider@lemmy.world 4 points 22 hours ago* (last edited 22 hours ago)

Yes, I get the liberals being "normies" thing as that was common in the Seattle area.

Most people that use the word don't know what it means. For those who do, it can have very different meanings as well. For someone who believes in communism/socialism liberals represent death as in liberals have went around killing leftist for decades now.

The reason there is no left in the US because it was snuffed out several times by liberals. McCarthyism is the most common example, but it has been a reoccurring theme in US polticis so much so that the right has perverted the definition of left and liberals to their advantage to paint Democratic people as unamerican.

I would be very careful allowing others to define words for you. You definitely shouldn't be listening to people who don't understand what words mean or random strangers on the Internet like me /s

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[–] boonhet@sopuli.xyz 0 points 21 hours ago (2 children)

It's been used that way for over a century if you look up articles like social liberalism which will explain to you that in that terminology, things like access to affordable healthcare and education are actually important because it's liberalism as in liberties of the individuals living in said society, not liberties of corporations.

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[–] Doomsider@lemmy.world 0 points 21 hours ago (1 child)

I see your point and I agree for the most part.

Liberty means very different things to different people and in many cases liberty as it is understood in the US is not compatible with social liberalism. Most conservatives, for example, view it as freedom from the government and rules. Imposing something like universal healthcare would be taking away their liberties and choice.

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[–] mattyroses@lemmy.librarysocialism.social 1 point 4 hours ago

That's not a new thing, either. Slaveholders in the US used to talk about the difference between liberty and freedom.

Liberty, in their view, is the right of the powerful to arrange their affairs without the interference of government. Incluing, in their case, literal slavery of people.

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