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[–] 6 points 1 day ago (7 children)

There is a parasite that can enter the human body through the urethra, migrate through the bloodstream, and eventually make its way to the eyes, where it destroys the delicate tissues responsible for sight, potentially leaving its host permanently blind.

Lion cubs, while learning to hunt, have been observed eating their prey alive, not out of malice, but simply because nature has yet to teach them the efficiency of killing.

There are plants, growing in ordinary urban environments, that are so poisonous that a curious child can eat a few leaves and die.

Cancer is as much a part of the natural world as the trees, the mountains, and the oceans.

So I have to ask: What exactly are you seeing in this world that you consider divine?

The beauty of nature? Of course. I've driven through the Smoky Mountains and traveled through the wilderness of Canada. I've stood before landscapes so breathtaking that they almost seem impossible. But there's a certain privilege in appreciating the beauty of nature from behind the glass of a car, traveling along a modern highway, protected from the very wilderness we're admiring.

Because beneath that beauty is a world that is indifferent to our existence. A world of parasites, disease, predation, starvation, and suffering. A world where a creature can spend its final moments being eaten alive, where a child can die from a handful of leaves, and where a perfectly healthy body can become a breeding ground for its own destruction.

I see the beauty. I really do. I just don't have the luxury of pretending it exists independently of the horror.

I see the same mountains you see, the same forests, the same extraordinary complexity of life. But I also see the child armies, the genocides, the famines, the diseases, and the seemingly endless capacity of humanity to inflict suffering upon itself. I see a universe in which suffering is not an exception, a deviation, or some unfortunate interruption of an otherwise benevolent design. It is woven into the very fabric of existence.

And perhaps that's the fundamental difference between us. You're looking at the beauty of the world and interpreting it as evidence of something divine. I'm looking at that same world, with all its beauty and brutality, and seeing no evidence of anything other than nature doing precisely what nature does.

There is no discernible benevolence behind it. No cosmic justice. No grand moral architecture ensuring that the innocent are spared or that suffering serves some greater purpose.

The universe doesn't hate us. It doesn't love us, either. It simply exists, indifferent to whether we flourish, suffer, or disappear.

And what we call beauty, horror, good, and evil are ultimately experiences filtered through the extraordinary but imperfect machinery of our own minds.

I don't find that depressing because I fail to appreciate the world. I find it sobering because I appreciate it enough to see all of it.

There is beauty in this universe. There is also unimaginable cruelty. Neither requires a divine explanation. And I see no compelling reason to pretend otherwise.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 day ago*

    “I cannot persuade myself that a beneficent and omnipotent God would have designedly created the Ichneumonidæ (parasitic wasps]) with the express intention of their feeding within the living bodies of Caterpillars.” Charles Darwin. Do these people mean the designer, omnipotent, omniscient, benevolent, creator, Jehovah, or the lord god that gave that gave us viruses, deadly bacteria, genetic diseases, parasites, , volcanos, earthquakes, blindness, cancers, floods, droughts, starvation, meteorites, death from lightning strikes, pestilence, holy wars, tidal waves, asbestos, infant mortality, trachoma, life threatening radioactive elements, solar flares, malaria, smallpox, despots, dictators, slavery, mass extinctions, ice ages, trachoma, hare lips, cleft palates, animal sacrifices, infant genital mutilation, mental illness depression, bilharzia and anxiety, autism, Parkinson's disease, Hansons disease, hernias, the appendix, compacted wisdom teeth, acne, dementia and complete morons?

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 1 day ago (5 children)

    Well it is my subjective experience so "my world" is divine. I am not saying that you will feel same too but it is just that I feel that these days that this life is beautiful, awesome.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 day ago (1 child)

    I think you're confusing your subjective experience of the world with the world itself. There is no "your world" and "my world." There is one shared reality, and we're simply experiencing and interpreting different aspects of it through our own limited perspectives.

    I'm genuinely glad that you're at a point in your life where you find existence beautiful. But I think there's an important distinction here, particularly considering your atheism. You seem to be assigning something almost divine to the experience of being alive, while simultaneously rejecting the existence of anything divine. Perhaps you mean that metaphorically, but I think the distinction matters.

    The universe doesn't become benevolent because you're happy, just as it doesn't become malevolent because someone else is suffering. Your subjective experience doesn't change the underlying reality. It simply determines which parts of that reality you're paying attention to.

    And that's really the point I've been trying to make. You can find the mountains breathtaking, marvel at the complexity of life, and appreciate the extraordinary experience of consciousness. I do all those things myself. But none of that requires us to romanticize the universe or pretend that its beauty is somehow representative of its nature.

    Because the same universe that produces breathtaking landscapes also produces parasites that destroy human eyesight, diseases that consume otherwise healthy bodies, predators that eat their prey alive, and natural disasters that indiscriminately kill thousands. And beyond nature, we have humanity's seemingly limitless capacity for cruelty, suffering, and destruction.

    You don't get to separate those things into different realities simply because one makes you feel good and the other makes you uncomfortable.

    If you're an atheist, then I would argue that there's something worth embracing about that perspective. We don't need to assign divinity to existence to appreciate it. We don't need a benevolent universe, a grand design, or some cosmic purpose to recognize that being alive is extraordinary.

    But we also shouldn't confuse our appreciation of existence with evidence of something inherently divine about it.

    I'm not asking you to stop finding life beautiful. I'm asking you to recognize that your happiness is a subjective experience within a much larger, indifferent reality. And living entirely inside that happiness, while ignoring everything that contradicts it, isn't necessarily a deeper appreciation of existence.

    It's just a narrower view of the world.

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