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[–] 42 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (10 children)

For other muslims my age I can at least talk about the Mukhannathun and gain some amount of legitimacy.

Except parents do that thing where they get absurdly offended at the idea their adult child dares teach anything; and so they just start yelling instead...

Also 9/10 people in the LGBTQ community are extra careful about NOT talking to you IRL for being middle eastern.

(Second one I do completely understand the reason for, and I am happy people are taking safety first, it just still feels a bit bad that's all)

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  • [–] 21 points 1 week ago (5 children)

    As a white trans woman, while I understand the fear a lot of folks have, it's still racism and we do still need to call it out.

    I get it with being awkward around someone wearing hijab or other religious clothing, I'm awkward around people wearing crosses too. But there are plenty of Muslims who are cool with us or capable of a peaceful coexistence stalemate. I'm really hopeful about people like Ilhan Omar, Zohran Mamdani, and Abdul El-Sayed changing perceptions of Muslims.

    But also, holy fuck white westerners need to understand that people can be Middle Eastern and not Muslim. I've met a trans lesbian atheist who had just gotten to America from Iran as a refugee. Palestine has a Muslim majority, but still has Jewish and Christian communities. Most middle eastern countries have traditional Christian communities, some have extremely old ones with wildly divergent traditions. There's also Baha'i and Zoroastrianism and possibly even some traditional paganism. And that's without even touching on the communistic atheists (such as in the PKK) or the fact that in every society a certain portion of people will hear all the religion stuff and just, not buy any of it, whether or not they can be openly atheist or convert to what they do buy.

    And that was just for people from the Middle East, which isn't all (idk if it's even most) of them in my country (USA). In 2002 most Arab Americans were Christians. Regardless though, people of middle eastern descent are just like any other descendants of immigrants. An American of middle eastern descent has the ability to find themselves embracing a much more liberal approach to Islam than their parents or to be an atheist or whatever else, just like someone who's family came over from Ireland at the same time has with their family's Catholicism.

    Sorry about the rant, but I grew up in post 9/11 America and I was fortunate enough to have plenty of exposure to Middle Eastern people over the course of my early life and in addition to seeing the people everyone was losing their shit to be racist towards I got to see a lot of the beauty in their cultures. And as I mentioned earlier I've seen people who had to flee the governments and social movements people actually have a problem with, we should be welcoming those people with wide open arms, not treating them with suspicion just because they look and sound Iranian or Iraqi or whatever.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 week ago (3 children)

    What are your thoughts on anti-theism, given your perspective towards religious minorities?

    For me, religion is religion. Its all goobly-gook. Sure I don't hate individual believers or whatever, but I intensely despise their religion all the same.

    I will say, whatever is the dominant religion of a region is always my primary concern. So in my own country, the US, Christianity is my least favored just due to its overwhelming influence, but they're all shit.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 week ago (2 children)

    Well I'm personally pagan so I'd say I'm not a huge fan of anti theism. I also see it as just as capable of authoritarian crackdowns against personal freedom as religions are.

    I'm a firm believer in secularism, including forced secular education. Religion is a personal matter and so long as I don't impede on anyone's life with my practice of it I should be free to light my incense, say my prayers, dance in front of some bonfires, and take my psychadelics in attempts to better understand the divine. And I should be free to meet up with others who are likeminded to do the same.

    But also, on Islam I just have seen so many anti theists behave towards people of middle eastern descent in a way indistinguishable from were they simply racist, so I do always keep an eye out for how they act.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 week ago* (1 child)

    I sincerely appreciate your thoughtful reply! :)

    I also see it [anti-theism] as just as capable of authoritarian crackdowns against personal freedom as religions are.

    Sure. I agree. I'd argue its less likely but its certainly possible.

    I also see it as just as capable of authoritarian crackdowns against personal freedom as religions are.

    We're on the same page here.

    Religion is a personal matter and so long as I don’t impede on anyone’s life with my practice of it I should be free to light my incense, say my prayers, dance in front of some bonfires, and take my psychadelics in attempts to better understand the divine. And I should be free to meet up with others who are likeminded to do the same.

    Outside of previously mentioned authoritarian regimes, an anti-theist doesn't necessarily take issue with your personal private theistic motivated decisions. Its when you actively promote religion in public that they'd take issue and if they are bold, form opposition. The issue would be, are you actively promoting your ideas? Then your religion ceases to be private.

    And of course, there is the issue where 'personal' choices effect everyone. Vaccinations come to mind as an example. No person is an island.

    But also, on Islam I just have seen so many anti theists behave towards people of middle eastern descent in a way indistinguishable from were they simply racist, so I do always keep an eye out for how they act.

    Oh, I know there are some anti-theists who use their anti-theism for cover for their racism. Its completely fair to be aware when someone is selective about which religions they critique. In particular I find "Cultural Christian" atheists particularly loathsome.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 week ago

    Yeah, I agree on when personal choices affect everyone, to a point. Specifically there must be a legitimate external harm and it shouod be remedied in the least restrictive means. I say this specifically because of the restrictions on religious drug use, both against pagans and indigenous Americans in modern day as well as against Christians in the 1920s USA (catholic priests had to be given an exception to the prohibition of alcohol for the wine served in services).

    I believe I should have the freedom to express and spread my beliefs unless I'm doing direct harm by doing so, religious or otherwise. And to restrict my ability to wear religious clothing or symbols is a restriction on my freedoms.

    I too am annoyed by Christian atheists. And I've been an anti theist, as well as dating one and befriending plenty since converting to paganism, so I'm not like, going to be on the warpath against y'all, but it's not like I like that y'all look down on my beliefs, which have had a noticeably positive impact on my life. I'm still a firm believer in freedom from religion, even if I do add a bit of religious zeal to some of my beliefs that overlap with my religion (such as environmentalism).

    And on a practical level if you want to kill religion as much as possible antitheism is a bad banner to rally under. What you want is secularism where everyone is exposed to the idea that science is what we have evidence for and everyone else is free to have their own beliefs at home. Religion is less sticky when people know folks of all sorts of them and when it's not something that people have any reason to feel persecuted for having.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

    even some traditional paganism.

    Oh absolutely! It's depressingly common for Alevis escaping persecution from muslim-majority countries to come to US and promptly get grouped in with muslims before being persecuted again.

    Sorry about the rant

    Thank you for the rant! I loved reading through it. Remember multiple movements I honestly forgot about.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 week ago* (2 children)

    What do you mean people in the LGBTQ community don’t talk to you IRL? Do you mean that as a kind of fearing a minority thing or because they’re extra careful about the general rule of not outing people you clock?

    I’m a white trans woman, but I live in a very diverse area. So the idea of avoiding someone because of their ethnicity is kinda foreign to me. Where I am, PoC are generally more respectful if not friendly to queer people than most white people are.

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