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[–] 78 points 2 weeks ago (20 children)

The greatest difference between us and our distant ancestors isn't intelligence. It's the knowledge we've inherited. Education is humanity's greatest achievement.

We all stand on the shoulders of those who came before us. I'm grateful to those who lifted us up, and I'll humbly do my part to lift those who come after us.

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  • [–] 11 points 2 weeks ago (18 children)

    It's society & available materials.

    If you took all your knowledge 10k years ago the daily life would still fairly resemble the lives they had.

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  • [–] 8 points 2 weeks ago (5 children)

    Between what the people 12k years ago knew and what just about any person today knows, you could start agriculture, building houses, at least the idea of digging wells, hygiene, the wheel, writing, and probably some others. A decently educated person in history, technology, or science (and I don't mean university-level) could add metalworking, astronomy, and animal domestication. The biggest limits to what you could do up to the industrial age would be megafauna and dieing before you accomplished it. If you passed on education, scientific theory, and the knowledge you had, there's a fair chance those things could be continued after you died.

    As far as society goes, there is good evidence chimps have society, as well as early homonids. I'm pretty sure we had that 12k years ago, too.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (2 children)

    I absolutely agree (I didn't say it wouldn't change things), but the first decades/generation would still be pretty basic, much of the knowledge wouldn't be applicable until you build your tools, get basics sorted, build safety nets, etc.

    For everything you need a willing society bcs one individual can't do it all - it's either you dig/build one well & others feed you or you do the efforts communally. Same with metalwork, that's a whole specialisation in the most basic sense (you need a workforce & resources for them to gather ore, work it, and forge anything of useful size - metalwork to produce a few grammes of metal per year isn't worth it, so you need a city-sized community at your disposal, and you need to get to that point ... unless maybe as an expensive way to just pass the knowledge for later gens to put it to good use, which might be successful, unless forgotten or the community doesn't survive).

    Animal domestication can take generations too in some cases (bovids), you need to first focus on docile females, and once they stay in a designated area (either like a valley or even fenced fields), you need the resources (food) to keep them alive there. So you need to build up agriculture at scale first. That why we found the first real domestication evidence around ancient cities, not random villages.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 weeks ago (1 child)

    Yeah, if I was going to jump start domestication, I'd start with chickens or sheep/goats. Chicken and goats can eat just about anything, so can be fed scraps and quickly become a net positive. They're also smaller and easier to manage than cows. Goats can be troublesome, but their risk is limited by their size.

    Domestication on both those species started about 10000 years ago, so it would only speed things up by 2000 years.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

    Smart, but you would need to be in specific area to get chickens (south Asia?) & goats (middle East?) suitable for domestication, which would still take several human generations to achieve - so in your lifetime you would just pass the knowledge (in case someone was interested) but otherwise live your life without seeing the results.

    It's not like livestock domestication didn't start about asap after there were conditions for it (cities, stable food production, some bureaucracy/specialisation/trade, etc)etc.

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  • [–] 5 points 2 weeks ago (7 children)

    If you went back 10000 years you definitively would have become an inventor or philosopher of sorts (assuming you could speak their language)

    Well, I guess it depends on your education, but we get taught things in elementary school that wouldn't have been invented or discovered for thousands of years back then. And some technologies you likely could make without many pre-requisite technologies themselves

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  • [–] 4 points 2 weeks ago (4 children)

    If the average person went back 10k years they would be regarded as insane or heretical. Even assuming communication wasn't an issue, way too much of your knowledge is built upon things you don't understand and don't exist. You can't do anything with electricity until you can refine metals and make copper wire. No average person knows the precursor plants for medicine. Brick making is beyond the average person and you wouldn't have a kiln anyway. Working without metal tools makes most processes the average person would know impossible.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 weeks ago (3 children)

    You just start with math, there's plenty of math the average person learns in an average school curriculum that you could re-"invent". After that people would start taking you more seriously

    Now they might consider you heretical or blasphemous still. If you played your cards right you could try to present yourself as a messenger from god although I personally really wouldn't want to go that route

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  • [–] 4 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 child)

    Have you ever read “Lest Darkness Fall”? It’s a great exploration of these concepts. Dude gets isekai’d back to the Roman Empire. All of his ideas fall on deaf ears because “obviously the Roman Empire is the peak of all cultures” and there’s no room for improvement. Except for his idea for an optical telegraph system, they really fuck with that. Honestly an amazingly realistic book haha.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 weeks ago

    Math is probably the least useful at that age, maybe later in the bronze age it gets more useful as society can support some knowledge work. 10k years ago people don't have time for math, the majority of people are focused solely on survival. That's stone age and the very beginning of agriculture.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 child)

    I absolutely agree (I didn't say it wouldn't change things), but the first decades/generation would still be pretty basic, much of the knowledge wouldn't be applicable until you build your tools, get basics sorted, build safety nets, etc.

    I'm trying to make the distinction between the ability to just 'make' as a proof of concept & actually apply that knowledge at scale that makes any difference in that accident context. Like metalwork - without (smol-)city-sized communities (labour, and accumulated resources like winter food & shelters) it doesn't make sense bcs you don't end up with enough use-cases.

    (Ofc immediate location is a great factor in what knowledge is more applicable and what not - surviving in the Arctic circle would be much different to the some savannah).

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  • [–] 3 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

    10k years ago you can legit skip to making steel by making a charcoal furnace with bellows. Steam engine is also straight forward, animal husbandry could get you way more food per animal in a generation, and basic hygiene makes lives way longer.

    I can go on but in short there's loads of knowledge pretty much anyone can bring to 10k years ago that changes lives significantly.

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  • animal husbandry could get you way more food per animal in a generation

    My dissertation chairman was involved in a research project in India back in the 1960s. Some agricultural extension folks had gone there because they had assessed Indian cattle as "weak" and "sickly" and were trying to introduce American breeds as a substitute. The locals wanted no part of these animals and eventually the researchers tried the radical approach of asking them why not. Turns out that while these cattle could plow 50% more land in a day, they ate twice as much food as the Indian breeds.

    The light went on in their heads and they set about attempting to cross American cattle with Indian cattle and breeding the most efficient animals. Turns out they couldn't get any more efficient than the original Indian breeds.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

    How do you get iron ore in quantities that would allow to build anything worth building & maintaining?
    (And what would you possibly use a resource-extremely-hungry steam engine for that needs to be fed that a wooden watermill couldn't do? You would need to build up society/economy even to justify a usecase for a watermill, otherwise you just build a monument.)

    You could build an electric battery 10k years ago, but what for?

    Where do you get species directly suitable for animal husbandry?

    Or ppl to produce & use higiene products?

    I can go on but in short there's loads of knowledge pretty much anyone can bring to 10k years ago that changes lives significantly.

    I absolutely agree with that.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 week ago

    I'm a bit skeptical about the stream engine just because it requires not just metal working but precision metal working where a piston needs to form a seal with the tube it's in not just at one place but anywhere it moves in that tube, to spin a shaft without wobbling to the point that it comes apart at the intended speed. Even more difficult if it needs to be hardened, since a bit of warping is common during a quench.

    I think it's easy to take a lot of things for granted and miss that modern (or even just industrial age) things aren't just the result of advancing a single tech tree but multiple tech trees coming together at the same time. Like I didn't even go into the lubricants and gaskets a motor requires.

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