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Linus Torvalds shares his thoughts on Anti-AI coding rules (infosec.pub)
submitted 3 weeks ago by to c/linux@programming.dev
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[–] 1 point 2 weeks ago (3 children)

Sounds nice. We’ve got ~500 employees at our “site” (which is now distributed across 3+ states with remote workers), of those, about 8 do software development, so developers end up doing virtually all of the translation of customer “needs” to specifications / requirements. We also have a marketing department that changes their mind about twice as fast as the product development / delivery cycle.

you're acting like the solution here is LLMs, when the solution is just hiring more people. LLMs aren't 'solving' anything, they're just masking the problem and allowing the millionaires at the top to keep making tons of money.

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  • [–] 0 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

    you’re acting like the solution here is LLMs

    No, you're imagining that's what I wrote. LLMs are a tool, not a solution. A helpful tool, very helpful in some situations. The real problem that people and LLMs struggle with is: what should we be doing in the first place? LLMs don't solve that, they do accelerate the making of a software thing when you know what you want that software thing to be. They also accelerating the finding of flaws during the process, enabling cleaning those flaws out faster.

    just masking the problem and allowing the millionaires at the top to keep making tons of money.

    That's not a problem for tools to solve, that's a societal problem that goes back to - at least - the start of agriculture.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 weeks ago (1 child)

    you’re acting like the solution here is LLMs

    No, you're imagining that's what I wrote. LLMs are a tool, not a solution.

    Fine, you’re acting like the tool for the solution is an LLM.

    A helpful tool, very helpful in some situations.

    X to doubt. My job is currently filled with people using LLMs and most of what I’m doing is undoing their shit our detangling whatever LLM output they paste

    The real problem that people and LLMs struggle with is: what should we be doing in the first place? LLMs don't solve that,

    Correct

    they do accelerate the making of a software thing when you know what you want that software thing to be.

    Incorrect. They accelerate making a ton of code that is impossible to maintain, update, etc. If you know what the software is, it was never writing it that was the hard part. That’s why senior+ developers have been saying for decades that the hard part of the job isn’t coding. It’s everything else.

    They also accelerating the finding of flaws during the process, enabling cleaning those flaws out faster.

    Incorrect. Like I said, half my job is reading over extremely verbose LLM bullshit from colleagues to tell them every single thing the LLM said incorrectly. That didn’t happen before LLMs. People checked their work. LLMs don’t have a mind, they cannot check their work.

    That's not a problem for tools to solve, that's a societal problem that goes back to - at least - the start of agriculture.

    I didn’t say it was a problem for tools to solve! But it sure is a problem tools can cause! And that’s exactly what’s happening here. It’s making everything so incredibly worse that there is literally no justification for it!

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  • [–] 0 points 2 weeks ago

    My job is currently filled with people

    My jobs have been filled with people misusing tools for 40 years, particularly new tools and computer oriented tools - the current trend is just an extension...

    They accelerate making a ton of code that is impossible to maintain, update, etc.

    When used improperly, sure, see above.

    If you know what the software is, it was never writing it that was the hard part.

    I'll agree, but still say that LLM agents accelerate the setup of toolchains, the learning of new languages, and many other things which do accelerate the writing part so instead of having to carve out 2 weeks of quiet time to get a good proof of concept ready from concept to ready for others to give feedback on, that can now be done in a day or two.

    reading over extremely verbose LLM bullshit from colleagues to tell them every single thing the LLM said incorrectly. That didn’t happen before LLMs.

    Your incompetent colleagues have been given a steamshovel for their bullshit, my condolences. It's not the steamshovel's fault it can work faster than a man with a spade on a stick.

    LLMs don’t have a mind,

    Correct.

    they cannot check their work.

    Incorrect. They're actually better at finding fault than they are at creating fault-free work. But they do require direction to keep looking for faults, they'll tell you they didn't find any (true statement) but when you tell them to look again (with a clean context window), unlike people, they'll look again just as carefully as the first time - and find more faults. I went bug hunting on a nice meaty module and found and corrected over 12 rounds of faults - they were getting rather trivial toward the end, and I had to direct to fix through removal rather than addition of code whenever possible - repeatedly, but after that it was actually clean and solid.

    it sure is a problem tools can cause! And that’s exactly what’s happening here.

    Tools aren't causing the problem here, managers are causing the problem. Any excuse for rank and yank will be gleefully embraced to its fullest potential.

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