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[+] -9 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (35 children)

Alan Pan, also William Osman, Mark Rober and basically every other tech creator on shittube ever, are all corporate marionettes. They make trivial things sound smart then shove sponsored products up every damn frame of their videos. Then they go through their email box and accept invites to every public event possible so that they get paid for being in cults. They are the reason some people call all single board computers "Raspberry Pi®s" and all microcontrollers "Arduino®s".

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  • [–] 11 points 3 weeks ago (34 children)

    Bro is hater of engineering YouTube, actually crazy.

    They make entretaining videos aboutdumb projects and get sponsored. Its no that bad.

    Mark Rober is by far the buggest and most sell out-y, other than him, most of these youtubers are really chill.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 weeks ago (1 child)

    The thing with Mark Rober is that he's definitely by far the most informative and educational.

    Backyard scientist, Alan Pan, William Osman, and others are kinda like high effort engineering shitposts and I love their content as well.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 weeks ago

    Most informative and educational? Ok, let's check one of Mark Rober's recent videos. Shittube ID 9IiYOTzJ2uw.

    • 00:00:00 Fastest lie on the west. The kid is a paid actor, which is pretty obvious near the end.
    • 00:00:25 Corporate cocksucking of Disney. Continues occasionally throughout the entire video.
    • 00:01:29 - 00:03:05 "experiments" of stuff which will obviously not achieve anything. As if he didn't learn a thing from the NASA internship he is flexing constantly, like the guy who worked at Blizzard for 7 years.
    • 00:03:06 - 00:03:12 Skipped a plausible solution actually in need of an experiment (angling the damn thrusters) and went to one which will obviously work but not be as close to the target. That's because he doesn't actually care.

    I don't think I need to continue.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 weeks ago (31 children)

    Cmon, look at this fucking circlejerk https://redirect.invidious.io/watch?v=0aMAHuLxg3s

    Half of them have nothing to even fucking do with a gamejam, the thing they are promoting, like William (well, except until he started getting paid by Anthropic to showcase bullshit code). He is there for the sake of being there and circling money around. Jabrils was supposed to be there but he was one of the few who seems to have caught on and left (although most of his videos are just saying "AI" 16 times in a row (although although the few ones where he doesn't do that are fun)).

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  • [–] 5 points 3 weeks ago (22 children)

    So they appeared in an ad, for a game jam happening in an event that they all take part in, and William literally created and operates at a loss? And the ad is for a non profit? How horrible!

    And yes, wills video with anthropic is weird, I skipped it.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 weeks ago

    FYI, the game jam was not part of Open Sauce, it was completely separate. William created Open Sauce, but he was not very involved in the making of the game jam, he was just invited as a guest.

    That said, I agree with the sentiment of your post. I really don't see anything wrong with the video.

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  • [–] -1 points 3 weeks ago* (20 children)

    in an event that they all take part in

    Open Sauce? Believe it or not, it also represents the interests of the rich. Guess why they are there.

    William literally created and operates at a loss

    Created what? What loss? :.|:;?

    the ad is for a non profit

    So? A NaNprofit it is, yes. With a few million in the bank. It is funded by corporations (previously also Elon Musk until someone on xitter convinced him it's somehow related to tesla protests, separate story) to promote their products to literal kids who don't know any better. And they are bad even at that.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 weeks ago (1 child)

    He created open sauce, and has been operating it at a loss.

    That said, this changes my views on hackclub. I really thought that they were a nornal non profit.

    I am not totally convinced that they are marionettes as you put it, but I can agree that they do get paid and therefore suck up to corpos tho. Altho I would say most youtubers do to get sponsored.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 weeks ago

    Oh, he did? Sorry for missing that.

    Although if you go to the opensauce.com webshit (com stands for commercial btw) and scroll down a bit, you may find a whole entire page of company logos. I don't see how this would result in any loss, I guess I am at a loss here.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 weeks ago (17 children)

    What products are they supposedly promoting to kids? The link you gave for that doesn't work. I've never seen them do that, and I've heard Hack Club staff specifically state that they do not do that, even if a corp sponsors them.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 weeks ago* (16 children)

    11 hour account hmmm...

    Anyways, that is kind of the whole point of the sponsorship. Companies want AT MINIMUM a giant logo shining on some page if it looks like it's for some cause (in this case kids education). Products related to sponsors are usually put up as prizes and/or have events built around them as constraint. Example quote from https://blueprint.hackclub.com/prototype :

    Build your most amazing AI powered hardware gadget using:

    • An AI PC powered by AMD Ryzen AI processor
    • A Hugging Face Le Robot arm
    • Any additional hardware you need to customize your project

    and use it to solve a challenging problem

    The biggest advertisement is Slack. Nobody else really uses Slack for anything informal.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 weeks ago (9 children)

    Also, how are they advertising through Slack? I'm active on there and I haven't seen that. They have announcements about their own events, but they don't advertise products at all.

    And yes, it is unusual for Slack to be used as a non-formal space. They use it because most other options can't handle such a huge amount of users. Not sure how that's even relevant though?

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  • [–] 1 point 2 weeks ago (8 children)

    Also, how are they advertising through Slack? I’m active on there and I haven’t seen that.

    It is flying over your head that you are on Slack in the first place while you otherwise wouldn't.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (7 children)

    I'm not sure what you mean. I joined so I can chat with other people who are interested in Open Source and coding. What's your point?

    Also, you're avoiding answering my question...

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  • [–] 1 point 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (6 children)

    Yes, and you are now using Slack. You know what Slack is. It is a paid product. You are now more likely to suggest or vote for opening a Slack workspace for a team. And a few dozen other people, too. You are now less likely to use your skills to work towards alternatives, something that Zach promised back in 2016, and also in 2025 when he promised to fork MatterMost.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 weeks ago (5 children)

    Ahh I see. I thought you meant advertising through Slack, not advertising Slack itself. Honestly the fact they use Slack is one of my least favorite things about Hack Club. That said, although I heavily prefer using only open source software, there are very few organizations who do that... Yk, "you can't let perfect be the enemy of good". Rejecting anything that's not perfect is unrealistic. What we should do instead, is try to improve things.

    I don't know about this promise Zach supposedly made, and I can't read about it since that article is paywalled. Kind of ironic trying to hate on a organization for using a paid product, while you're evidence is hidden behind... A paid product.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 weeks ago* (4 children)

    paywall

    Interesting, loaded fine for me the other day. Although the paywall is gone if I just disable scripting. UBlock Origin has a button for that, it's the </>.

    Also, just realized that Lemmy rewrites links which fucks up the pretty new highlight anchor standard... I should probably open an issue about that eventually. But page search for "Slack".

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  • [–] 1 point 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (3 children)

    Got it to load. No, he did not promise to work towards an alternative (though I have heard him say elsewhere that he would like to switch to an alternative). He mentioned that one member was working on an alternative as their own project, that's all.

    This is the second time you've tried to make what one individual is doing as a personal project sound worse than it is, then making it sound like Hack Club as a whole is the one doing it (the first time claiming that HC is "gamifying claude"). Hack Club is a huge community, what a few individual members do doesn't represent the whole of Hack Club. This just feels disingenious.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 weeks ago (2 children)

    he did not promise to work

    No CEO does any work of course, someone else does

    As for the Claude counter, look at the leaderboard. That's slightly more than a single person.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 weeks ago (1 child)

    The point is that you claimed that Zach promised something that he never promised. Why?

    No CEO does any work of course, someone else does

    He's not a CEO. He's the founder. And he did, and continues to do, a lot of work to make Hack Club what it is. He isn't a billionaire with 15 homes.

    As for the Claude counter, look at the leaderboard. That's slightly more than a single person.

    It's a huge community. Of course there are a lot of people who use AI. Guess what... There's also a lot of people who a very anti-AI. And personally, I think communities are healthier when we accept that not everyone has to agree on everything.

    Also, you're missing the point. You claimed that Hack Club was gamifying Claude, linking to a project that one community member made. That's what I meant by one person. I wasn't claiming that only 1 person in Hack Club uses Claude.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

    The point is that you claimed that Zach promised something that he never promised.

    Implied promise.

    He’s not a CEO. He’s the founder.

    Blunder: two things may be true at the same time. https://hackclub.com/team :

    Zach Latta: Founder and Executive Director

    Wikipedia:

    Executive director is commonly the title of the chief executive officer (CEO) of a company, a nonprofit organization, government agency or international organization.

    The title may also be used by a member of a board of directors for a corporation {where} the role is usually contrasted with a non-executive director who usually holds no executive, managerial role with the corporation, but purely an advisory role.

    It's clearly not the latter (get it? "latt"er, eh? hah, heh heh). Quinn Slack (unrelated to Slack) says CEO of "Amp", an AI company, not of Hack Club. The page also reveals that he, the CEO of AMD and the CEO of Dell are all in the board.

    a lot of work

    About as much as any CEO, that is email and Slack.

    isn’t a billionaire with 15 homes.

    Doesn't have to be for it to be bad. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petite_bourgeoisie

    Also, the non-profit is an asset, so he is a millionaire by definition.

    one community member made

    Also employee during work hours.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 weeks ago (5 children)

    Yes, I just joined. So?

    How do you expect them to get money without sponsorships? Yes, they accept donations from companies sometimes as prizes for events. So what? Is there something inherently wrong with that?

    As you pointed out, Prototype is an exception. I had forgotten about that, but yeah they did have some AMD hardware at the Hackathon that you were expected to use. And I'm not a fan of that. I'm pretty sure that's the only time they've ever done that though. Even things like GitHub is one of their biggest donors, yet they specfically make a point to allow you to use whatever code hosting server you want.

    Donors benefit because resources going to help teens build technical projects benefits the industry as a whole, rather than the donor specifically.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 weeks ago (4 children)

    I’m pretty sure that’s the only time they’ve ever done that though

    Wrong. Most website YSWSes expect you to use something like bun.js and write so in the manual. Most tutorials expect you to use GitHub. Most 3D printing expects you to use Bambu Labs (and I would need an example where a 3D printer was offered from another brand). This event literally tells you that you will get less if you don't use sponsored tools, instead of outright saying no or expecting otherwise. And as you may already note, they are normalizing Claude and gamifying it.

    benefits the industry as a whole

    Diminishing effect.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 weeks ago (3 children)

    No, most YSWSs don't force you to use bun.js lmao.

    Most tutorials assume you use github because it's... What most people use. Just like how most tutorials about coding in general (not related to Hack Club) also assume you use GitHub. But Hack Club programs intentionally allow you to use any Git service, even your own self hosted one.

    About forcing you into using Bambu, I haven't seen or heard of that and can't really comment since I don't do much hardware stuff. All I can say is that is not a thing in the YSWSs I've participated in.

    This event literally tells you that you will get less if you don't use sponsored tools

    EasyEDA donated discounts to their services you mean? Oh No ThAt'S sO aWfUl TeEnS cAn GeT a DiScOuNt!! It's just a discount to get your PCBs manufactured. It's not like it's encouraging people to buy in to some sort of closed ecosystem or anything, and you still can get stuff from other companies if you want. And from what I can tell, they didn't raise prices for getting it from other companies.

    And as you may already note, they are normalizing Claude and gamifying it

    What are you talking about?? One community member made a website that has statistics on how much people use Claude, and suddenly that means that Hack Club is gamifying Claude??

    Look, it's clear you know a lot about Hack Club, so I'm sure you know this, but it seems like you're pretending it's not the case, so let me state this: Hack Club is very loose about what tools you can use. Whether that's what brands you pick, whether or not you can use AI (up to a certain point), etc. Each Hack Club program can have its own restrictions as they see fit (EG completely banning AI, or having a program about a certain type of software), but Hack Club is not forcing people to use certain brands or use AI, that would be individual YSWSs, which you can choose to participate in or not.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 weeks ago (2 children)

    Erm, but ackhually, technically you don't have to use Vercel or whatever, it's just because that everyone does that

    It's like LG TVs asking you to accept a bunch of technically optional 300 page license agreements and putting the cursor on "accept". Technically you may decide otherwise, but you need to already be aware of this beforehand, and most people who would knowingly buy a "smart" TV in the first place would not know.

    Hack Club is putting big brands of their sponsors everywhere. You may (sometimes) use more free solutions, but you would need to know these beforehand. And the biggest point of Hack Club is education. Most would literally not know and assume those are the only options.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 weeks ago (1 child)

    Erm, but ackhually, technically you don't have to use Vercel or whatever, it's just because that everyone does that

    Huh? That's not what I said. You're combining 2 separate points I made into one that were never meant to go together. Please respond to what I actually said, instead of changing it into something stupid so it's easier to have a come back against.

    It's like LG TVs asking you to accept...

    What is like that?

    Hack Club is putting big brands of their sponsors everywhere.

    I assume you mean products, not brands? Not really. Sometimes sponsors donate items, and YSWS organizers might put the item as a prize if it makes sense.

    But let's see, Hack Clubs biggest sponsors are...

    • Elon Musk. Haven't seen anything about him or any of his companies or products in Hack Club, besides his name on a sponsor list somewhere.
    • The Thiel fellowship. Same as above.
    • GitHub. Some guides assume you use GitHub, but like I said previously, that's because most people use it, and most non HC tutorials also assume you use it. It's not because they're a sponsor. Actually, Hack Club has their own free alternative to GitHub and GH Codespaces. They're definitely not trying to get people stuck on GitHub.
    • AMD: They donated 16 of their GPUs ig?
    • NASA (their a partner, idk if they technically sponsored HC): They donated some tickets to the Kennedy Space Center as possible prizes for an event. Is that considered bad? I really don't think so.
    • CEO of Shopify: haven't seen anything related to Shopfiy or any products, advertisements etc.
    • CEO of Dell: same as above
    • MIT: same as above
    • Girls Who Code: same as above
    • Open Sauce: like we talked about previously, they have partnered together for events, but not to promote any products. It doesn't seem terrible to me.

    Those are Hack Club's 10 biggest donors. I think this should be pretty obvious: Hack Club accepts donations. They do not sell out to big tech.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

    It’s like LG TVs asking you to accept…

    What is like that?

    I was making an https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/analogy with those two paragraphs.

    I assume you mean products, not brands?

    Both.

    Elon Musk. Haven’t seen anything about him or any of his companies or products in Hack Club, besides his name on a sponsor list somewhere.

    Can't be bothered to find the source but he quit a while ago because someone on Xitter managed to convince him that HC is in relation to anti-Tesla protests. Which is false because they would never bite the feeding hands for this exact reason. His contributions were mostly for his own ego, like the AMA promoted him both to kids and to outsiders.

    Actually, Hack Club has their own free alternative to GitHub

    You mean, git.hackclub.app? hackclub.app is the community hosting platform, so let's use that argument against you. Even if not, filtering by not forks, not mirrors, not templates (but including archived), there are 6 pages full of 20 items plus 4 more. I don't know how to filter out 1 commit ones, but there are 12 repos named "test". Total:

    $ bc <<<"6*20+4-12"
    112
    

    Now, lets see the page for some old event, like https://highseas.hackclub.com/ . The "last time we did this" portion is talking about an even earlier event, "arcade". It says "5000" high schoolers participated, implying at least one project per each AND rounded.

    and GH Codespaces

    Using software maintained by Microsoft, promoting an idea basically only Microsoft is doing. It's absolutely pointless even on most Chromebooks. Nice try.

    AMD: They donated 16 of their GPUs ig?

    ...and the whole build using the Ryzen® AI thing.

    The Thiel fellowship, Shopify

    The bare minimum promotion via logo. EDIT: philanthropy page has a shopify shop

    MIT, Girls Who Code, Open Sauce

    Also non-profits bringing their own politics here.

    NASA

    Gotta love promoting US nationalism. Also, "talking to astronauts" actually means "talking to someone who will have to talk to 40 more people with their stupid questions to afford food".

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  • [–] 1 point 2 weeks ago (7 children)

    Do you have a spec of evidence for this supposed "circling money around"? The finances for that game jam are completely open (as are all Hack Club events).

    Also, if I remember correctly, Jabrils didn't come because he was sick.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 weeks ago* (6 children)

    Do you have a spec of evidence for this supposed “circling money around”?

    I recall there being an extremely specific Wikipedia article but I couldn't find it, unfortunately, but it was political theory. Instead see: https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbolic_capital

    In general, there are a few greedy friends who own Microsoft, AMD and so on and so forth. Each worker in the chain does their thing, produces something, gets a paycheck (usually) smaller than the worth of what was produced and then all of the differences add up so that the people up top may buy another yacht. When they do that a similar thing happens but that's not relevant. It may seem they only take a little, but together the difference is like 1 to 360. Imagine 1/360th of a pizza, like one metric degree of a circle. There was a meme about that around Lemmy somewhere.

    Anyways, the stuff they have is called capital. They want more. One way to achieve that would be to have more people be aware of their products (because selling analytics...), so they look online (actually just hire someone who will hire someone else to look online but that's not relevant) for ways to do that. They find a non-profit, then they offer to give a little bit of this amazing shiny capital but ONLY if they put up a logo or something. Cool, they now have some guarantee that people will see their "good" and use the stuff. Now, inside of the non-profit (ahem), they need themselves to advertise to fulfill some of the goals of the partnership. To do that, they buy themselves some symbolic capital in the form of the influencers. They go hi, I am person X, therefore you should like and subscribe. Nerds go cheering, and go to the non-profit, then see that and go to for-profit aiding them to make money, therefore making a circle. Meanwhile the influencers themselves end up using the stuff by the for-profit as well and make a circle themselves.


    My bad if true on Jabrils. I did speak to him when I was bored, his take was that "well I was just asked to be there by open sauce lol, I will see though", and he wasn't there so I naively assumed it was related, but I guess not.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 weeks ago (5 children)

    I don't disagree that that happens in our world, but Hack Club really isn't advertising products like you insinuate. And I really don't see how simply accepting a sponsorship is inherently evil. By that logic, do you also think that open source projects like KDE Plasma, GNOME (both sponsored by Google, Canonical etc), Fedora (sponsored by red hat) etc are also bad because they've accepted sponsorships from giant tech companies?

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  • [–] 1 point 2 weeks ago* (4 children)

    Yes, I plan on moving to BSD. I don't use Plasma anymore.

    Talk a bit on Lemmy, join a few communities, engage in comments. There's no algorithm which will only show you stuff you like, only defederation lists and instance rules. Come back in a month and see if your opinion changed.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 weeks ago (3 children)

    Huh. Personally I think developers getting paid is not inherently evil.

    So you recommend Lemmy? Personally I like it so far too. Totally unrelated fun fact... Lemmy also has sponsors. Are you gonna leave Lemmy now? https://opencollective.com/lemmy

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  • [–] 1 point 2 weeks ago (2 children)

    That OpenCollective page doesn't list any corporations, it's community funded. Biggest donation of all time is 2.8k freedoms. Nutomic is a bit of an asshole, yes, but Lemmy may continue without him regardless in case of anything.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 weeks ago (1 child)

    So accepting sponsorships is ok until a business donates or someone donates a substantial amount? And at that point you have to stop using Lemmy?

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  • [–] 1 point 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

    Until a business donates, yes. I will be skeptical of Lemmy the similar way I am of Linux. Someone may make yet another fork, although I could try one of the many existing ones. It's not my first account anyway, so I am used to migrating.

    Also, you are seemingly focused on interrogating me? There are lots of active threads on here, you should check those out. Welcome, and welcome, to Lemmy. You have chosen, or been chosen, to visit one of the current finest establishments here, on the internet.

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