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Young Indonesian couple publicly caned after kissing on TikTok (www.theguardian.com)
submitted 4 months ago by to c/world
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[–] 2 points 4 months ago* (3 children)

To say Islam is intolerant is to generally claim that Muslims are intolerant.

Absolutely not. Organized religions, such as Islam and Christianity (or rather, Catholicism, Shia etc.), are themselves power structures perpetuating values.

Criticizing a religion is no more a criticism of the individual believers than calling a national government (like the Russian one maybe) evil is equivalent to claiming all who share that nationality are evil.

I would also strongly dispute your claims regarding the history of islam, but don't have time to take that discussion right now. My statements regarding islam as a religion in the current day I will stand by however.

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago* (2 children)

    Criticizing a religion is no more a criticism of the individual believers than calling a national government (like the Russian one maybe) evil is equivalent to claiming all who share that nationality are evil.

    If one is to this then they must make it clear which the original commentor did not. They did not say "the religious hierarchy within islam is oppressive in order to preserve existing structures of power", they just clearly implied Islam is intolerant without any addition of context. I believe my interpretation was reasonable within those bounds.

    I also encourage you to look into how Bedouins treated women before Islam. Or anyone for that matter, it was often unpleasant to be a part of their society and Islam made their lives better.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago* (1 child)

    Eh?

    Do I need to say more than "Russia is evil"?

    I tend to assume people are saying what they are meaning. OP said "Islam is so tolerant" (sarcastically, implying the opposite) not "muslims are so tolerant".

    Language has meaning. In my country, statement no. 1 is constitutionally protected expression (criticism of a religion, whether in speech or print - originally implemented to prevent the church from censuring people) whilst statement no. 2 might get you dinged for "agitating against a demographic".

    I also encourage you to look into how Bedouins treated women before Islam. Or anyone for that matter, it was often unpleasant to be a part of their society and Islam made their lives better.

    As mentioned, discussion for another day.

    Now I gotta sleep tho but interesting chatting :)

    cya

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago*

    Do I need to say more than "Russia is evil"?

    Yes lol, you do need to say more than that.

    Anyway it seems like we just have different standards for how clearly our meanings should be articulated. Especially on topics such as these. This is likely because I come from a country where Islamophobia is so endemic. Statements like the original commenter made are something I often hear said sarcastly from people I know to be bigots. In my experience it has been people like this who supported our brutal invasions and/or sanctions of Iraq, Iran, Syria, Pakistan, and Afghanistan. Often times they are also the type to be sympathetic to Israel (or at least were at one point). They use their supposed disgust with the bigotry of the foreigner to mask their own bigotry and support for imperialist plunder. So perhaps I overanalyzed that persons statement but perhaps my experiences let me see things you might miss.

    Finally, I wasn't suggesting we discuss the revolution in Bedouin society caused by Islam I just think it is cool and interesting and something you should read about when you get the chance.

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