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Driving in America Is Headlight Hell (www.theatlantic.com)
submitted 5 months ago by [B] to c/hackernews@lemmy.bestiver.se
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[–] 14 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (11 children)

This doesn't fix a major problem. 1 headlights should be adjustable by the person buying the vehicle. 2. Headlights like these allow people to who don't know how to use them to do dangerous things like drive through fog with their headlights on to the point where their headlights aren't just blinding them, but also blinding others. They don't turn them off. They are entirely reliant on the headlights to be automatic and the computer to decide if/when the headlights belong on.

Edit: Also, no I don't want a headlight that costs $2000-5000. Thank you, but no.

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  • [–] 3 points 5 months ago (8 children)

    They cost $2,000 in a market where it's considered a luxury upgrade. They wouldn't cost the vendor that much if they were standard on every vehicle. Look at the price of upgraded stereo systems in cars. The components cost about $100 and they charge customers over $1, 000 as an add-on.

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (7 children)

    My good sir (ma'am, or theydy), you sound like someone who's never had to replace something like that out of pocket. Parts and labor. And possible diagnosis time.

    To get an OEM factory part for a stereo system in lots of vehicles is expensive as fuck. and a lot of the time to get to the silly computer that runs the system you have to take apart the dash and or center console. I know this because I used to do that as a job.

    Headlights used to be a few hundred bucks. Wing mirrors used to be a few hundred bucks. They cost around $2000 now. that's a wild amount of money and these things are drive by a whole separate module that a lot of the time is attached to know or both of the lights.

    Car manufacturers still have components on backorder from the backlog caused by the pandemic. And Generative AI is causing all kinds of components shortages. I wasn't making an exaggeration about the cost. Parts and labor, because manufacturers are making it harder and harder to work on your own vehicles is gonna cost the average person.

    We aren't talking about walking into car toys here. I'm basing my price range off what it'll cost when it comes with the vehicle and what it would cost to replace at a dealership with a factory part.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago (2 children)

    Headlights used to cost like $20. The whole damned thing. They were mandated standardized sealed-beam units that you could get in round or rectangle. That was it. Every garage/gas station and auto store had them and it was a cinch (usually) to swap out. We pooched it by letting the auto manufacturers have freedom of design. Sure cars fronts would look a little samey and aero be damned, but the economy of scale would likely keep prices way lower. Probably. Maybe. Or they could just ensure they shaft everyone on every car. I reckon that’s the more likely outcome.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago (3 children)

    Intelligent car headlights can cost as little as $200 to produce.

    I understand what you are saying about added complexity and difficulty to replace.

    This is a matter of public safety though. People die because they are blinded by other drivers headlights. It's also a quality of life issue. Nobody is happy with the brightness of modern headlights.

    I mentioned the car stereo as an example because the components are ridiculously cheap to produce. Terrible quality tweeters that are installed in Bose and Harmon Kardon systems cost about $3 per pair to produce. If you want to buy OEM replacement you pay about $120, for the same $3 speakers.

    While there won't be a big aftermarket selling compatible headlights I think car makers will be installing them at cost into every car, rather than profiting from people who select an expensive and overpriced add-on.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (2 children)

    Car stereos really don't cost the kind of money now. You are referring to a time that is long gone. I'm not exaggerating when I say they cost more.

    We're clearly talking about two very different things here because I'm not talking about after market parts and additionally you aren't taking into account that this is not a situation where you can just slap an after market part with a fuse and an adapter in there and call it good.

    Cars these days have a lot more computer modules in them. This headlight has a module in each side to control the automatic headlights and high beams, and it's supposed to talk to another module that connects it with a ride height sensor for auto leveling so that when you put something in the back of the truck it auto adjusts. That's why it's $1000 just for the part.

    To install that headlight at a dealer you'd be looking at at least 2 hours of labor because it doesn't just pop out anymore (because as these headlights being so expensive makes them a target for theft and resale). In newer vehicles they bolt a lot of stuff on top of each other (grille trim, radiator fan supports etc) to make it harder to steal and harder for a customer to replace on their own).

    While radio/stereo prices have come down significantly as the demand has gone up, this doesn't necessarily mean you're not paying just because it's a mandatory or standard feature). It just means they add that to the sticker price of an alternative expensive vehicle.

    People die because they are blinded by other peoples headlights because they don't know how to use the features of the vehicles they own. They aren't taught to do things they should because they rely on features that "make things safer". Yes. I am positive backup cameras and backup sensors have save a lot of lives. But if you can't back up a vehicle without those aids you shouldn't be driving it. If you can't park a vehicle without parking aids, you shouldn't be driving it.

    Replacing something like this (a component that lots of people break because they can't drive and are bad at understanding how big their vehicles are) will be expensive to the consumer.

    And additionally this is a component that is necessary for safety so it's the type of thing that will cause more problems in the event that it fails because any after market part will have to communicate with the rest of the system already factory installed in the vehicle. This isn't the type of thing where when it fails you can just ignore it like you might if you didn't want to replace your Bluetooth or your heat was blowing cold.

    If a product is being made it will be used to profit off people. Yes even in the aftermarket. Doesn't matter how cheaply they can make it. It matters whether they can sell it and what price the market will bear.

    At a time when everything around us is getting more expensive not because it's necessarily more expensive to make but because the line must go up and companies want to keep seeing record profits, you seem to believe that automakers are going to just make the decision to not do that.

    And that's ignoring all the parts and components they still have on backorder.

    Things that are a matter of public safety don't necessarily reach the bar where automakers will do that over what is profitable. Just look at the number of SUV's and pickup trucks that are so huge that the driver can't see pedestrians or at times other vehicles in front and to the sides of them.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago* (1 child)

    You make some good points but I really disagree with your statement that auto deaths are caused by drivers inability to use their cars features. Yes most fatalities are probably avoidable and are caused by bad and distracted drivers. But your example of back up cameras being unnecessary is a poor one. They are mandated because children walk behind cars and they're too small to see in mirrors. With headlights, a driver cannot adjust their headlights to be less bright if they are already on low. These intelligent lights don't just control high and low beams. They will actually black out a circle so that the beams don't shine at other cars but shine around them.

    The issue is really that modern headlights are too bright. LED headlights are great but their output needs to be limited. Consumers should have a choice between vehicles with headlights that are less bright and vehicles with intelligent headlights.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago

    Before we had the backup camera we had sensors. I have sensors on my car.

    But I think you have missed the forest for the trees here. I used to backup camera example because people no longer use their mirrors as they should (both should do and should learn to do), which makes it overly dangerous for all of us. When the backup camera stops working, can they backup without it?

    Backup cameras are one of those technical parts of the car that invariably are mounted in places prone to corrosion. I've seen my fair share of malfunctions with them and come across several people who "can't drive without them". Their words, not mine. Backup camera lenses get dirty, cloudy, or otherwise become obscured in inclement weather and people often break other things (property, people, pets etc) backing up without them because they are over-reliant on them. I feel the same way about people who don't look over their shoulder or at their mirrors before turning anymore because the side proximity warning sensors on their car will alert them so it's fine. No matter that the sensors in those things can get false readings from other signals like those in some key fobs.

    And do not get me started on crap like blue cruise that people think is self driving and just use without paying attention to the road.

    So yes, their over reliance on the tech in their vehicle hinders their ability to use the low tech options that are available and much more reliable. This happens all the time. Some of it is obviously negligence. Some of it is down to the fact that people should be required to show they can operate the vehicle without these features because there is likely to come a time when one or more of them will be out of commission and require maintenance.

    Either way my argument isn't that these headlights in particular will make people less safe. it is that overreliance on technology prevents people from learning necessary skills that should be required to be licensed to operate a 4 ton machine at speed with other people on the road.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago (1 child)

    My Rivian does this with high beams and I can't understate how awesome it is as someone with ADHD. If Rivian can do it, everyone can.

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  • [–] 3 points 5 months ago

    I have ADHD and I don't want more smarts in cars. I am not doubting that everyone can do it (look at you Ford and Dodge with your 360 camera systems and heated mirrors and so on). But at a time when electronics are going through the roof as far as cost is concerned to the point where large companies are having trouble ordering stuff (and still trying to cope with global backorders of those same electronic modules and components from the pandemic), I gotta tell ya, I feel like things like this enable people who shouldn't be on the road because they don't know the features of their vehicle and want it to do everything for them. Everyone should know how to and be able to turn on and off all their lights. I've seen people blind other people in parking lots, not even on the road because they can't turn off their own lights. I've seen people who don't know the difference between daytime running lights and automatic headlights, and I've been blinded by people driving in fog who didn't have the common sense to turn off their lights or turn off automatic brights.

    As much as I hate being blinded by people who can't aim their own headlights because car makers have made it basically impossible to do it yourself on purpose, I don't necessarily view this as a better solution because of all the use cases where it makes people more dangerous to others on the road.

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