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  • [–] 23 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    Is that the point though? Isn't the point that he has done far less to endanger the UK population than Elon, and yet he is banned and Elon isn't? Surely that's worth discussing?

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago*

    Advised is irrelevant in the context of banned. It does have something to do with what other people have been "stopped from"; it's a comparison, and there is therefore no error.

    As an aside, "Mr Musk" deserves no respect from you. He is a fascist, and should not be tolerated.

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  • [–] 21 points 4 months ago

    I’d never heard of him until I listened to him on the Trevor Noah podcast. He sounded normal enough there, granted, that’s just a tiny slice of info.

    That and he mostly talked about everything the Dem party was doing wrong.

    If I had to guess, because he’s anti Israel, and both our countries are keenly invested in no one having a negative opinion of anything done by Israel. Ever.

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  • [–] 20 points 4 months ago

    I would evaluate if you have reasonable beliefs here. Like do you have enough information to accurately describe someone as a sociopath? To claim what they "only care about"...?

    In this case I doubt you do, so it's then strange to be so virulent and adamant.

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  • [–] 39 points 4 months ago (40 children)

    It’s fucking crazy how well the “shocked dog”bullshit has stuck.

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  • [–] 7 points 4 months ago (22 children)

    You speak like you have the luxury. This was years ago and the collapse of your country is imminent. Do you really want to start burning a leader at the stake with some flaws in favor of a gang of criminals? This is precisely why you're in this predicament. Look around you. Do better yourself. You have little choice but compromise at the moment. Burn him at the stake later when you're not actively dying as a country. So goddamn unbelievable and insufferable.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago* (20 children)

    Nah, this is the same shit y'all did last time with Harris. You wouldn't vote for a genocide apologist, so you'd rather have a pedophile, genocide accomplice and sociopath. Incredibly myopic.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (18 children)

    You sound decidedly sociopathetic. Good job.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (16 children)

    You're deliberately not walking the talk, because if you were, you weren't be here discrediting the guy because of one thing you found problematic about him without considering the bigger picture.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago* (14 children)

    And so you need to bring it up every time the dude is mentioned? Can you not refrain about this and bring it up when it's not a distraction to cause a rift? Do you realize what you're doing?

    all you want is leftist populism

    So what. Is that bad that we need to unite the left in one way or another? You're keen on destroying a common cause in favor of some unrelated shit because mUh mOrElS. Shut up, you're not helping.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (13 children)

    And so you need to bring it up every time the dude is mentioned? Can you not refrain about this and bring it up when it's not a distraction to cause a rift? Do you realize what you're doing?

    Yes. 1000x yes. Loyalism and populism are the wrong path because as we can see here, a popular celebrity has found a way to shield themselves from reproach and rebuke the request for even the simplest course correction in their daily life, and their followers will demand that others compromise their personal moral standard to fit that of their favorite podcaster.

    So what. Is that bad that we need to unite the left in one way or another?

    Change left with right and that’s the same question conservatives debated when they sold out what little integrity, morality, and soul they might have personally had to support a populist that would assure victory.

    You're keen on destroying a common cause in favor of some unrelated shit because mUh mOrElS.

    I’m keen on holding people who put themselves in positions of influence and leadership being accountable to the people they claim to be uniting and take responsibility for their transgressions when their character is found lacking. That there’s people like you hoping a populist will be some sort of savior, I find that far more disturbing. That the question of animal rights is relegated to “unrelated shit” is repugnant. That’s the problem with morals, you either have them and hold fast or you’ve got none save whatever your populist leader told you was the current morality of the cause.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (12 children)

    a popular celebrity has found a way to shield themselves

    And yet he's not doing that? Do you realize how destructive and needlessly defensive you are?

    Change left with right and that’s the same question conservatives debated when they sold out what little integrity, morality, and soul they might have personally had to support a populist that would assure victory.

    THE COUNTRY IS LITERALLY DYING. Get it through your thick head. There won't be left and right when this administration is done fucking over everybody. I get you don't care because you're in the UK anyway, but Jesus F Christ, start seeing past your nose for once.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (11 children)

    And yet he's not doing that?

    I know he’s not, you and others in the comments of this and countless other threads do it without having to be asked or directed to because that’s the benefit of being a populist. They make themselves synonymous with the cause and their base will treat a critique of their leader’s actions/character as an attack on the cause and themselves.

    Do you realize how destructive and needlessly defensive you are?

    Destructive to what? What have I destroyed? Piker is a celebrity, he’s not running for office, his boots on the ground contributions to the cause are few, far between, and highly publicized. He’s not a leader, he’s not a political party, he’s not even a philosopher, just a podcaster. He’s free to discuss his opinions on leftism, his fans are free to listen and adopt them, but he is not the voice of the left nor is he taking steps to become a stakeholder in the power struggle of what’s left of our democracy. This isn’t a tear down of a milquetoast Democrat when their MAGA opponent is going to be 1000x worse if they win.

    THE COUNTRY IS LITERALLY DYING.

    The country is dead. We’re just waiting to figure out how decayed it actually is come next election cycle, the one they’ve gerrymandered into guaranteed wins, are threatening to post up voter intimidation squads, and who knows how corrupted our machines and mail-in ballot system is. Even if MAGA loses majority in Congress, what do you actually expect to happen? They still have the courts, he’s embedding himself in a bunker. Congress can vote to impeach him all that want, he’s positioned to ignored that should he choose and ICE, the cops, and his zealots are going to make damn sure nobody forces him out.

    Real leftist action isn’t listening to live streams or propping up populists on the notion it’ll create some counter-MAGA that will save our dying nation. It’s building coalitions in your community that are planning for when the last vestige of democracy is swept away and full-blown fascist tyranny replaces it. It’s mutual aid, food/medicine/hygiene/baby supply stock-piling, seed saving, identifying who has what skills (nurses, mechanics, child care) that can be relied upon when social order begins to breakdown. It’s making sure you’ve identified the most vulnerable in your community that will be targeted first and learning how to protect and defend them when ICE shows up.

    Democrats, populists, and Piker aren’t the people running ICE and MAGAts out of their communities, that is achieved by the people who live there, sometimes at the expense of their own lives. Talk is cheap, even people with good opinions still have shortcomings, but no politician, podcaster, or populist is going to save us, we save ourselves.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago* (10 children)

    I know you're going to stop being a destructive asshole. I'm just going to tag you right now and call you out in the future every single time I see you do it. You're just as morally bankrupt as that which you criticize.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (8 children)

    Idk what leg you think you're pulling but that's not it. Go back to your cave.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (7 children)

    Neither because I don’t know which leg you’re standing on. You bounce back and forth between accusations and judgements with emotionally driven but contradictory replies.

    You're keen on destroying a common cause in favor of some unrelated shit because mUh mOrElS.

    You're just as morally bankrupt as that which you criticize.

    At one point you clap back that my morality is a hindrance, later I’m as morally bankrupt as is the thing I criticize, which is the thing you support. Which is it? My morals or lack thereof? 

    I’m tempted to believe that you didn’t mean to damn what I’m criticizing while you were damning me, but maybe you did, maybe it slipped out, or maybe it’s just a poor choice of words. Morality isn’t a universal constant, it’s shaped by people because it’s a human invention. White Christian nationalism is built on the idea of morality as a God-given baseline, by their values those who exercise their free will and reject that are morally bankrupt. People are free to adopt whatever morals they want and hold themselves to it, but that doesn’t allow them to take actions that negatively affect how others choose to live or hinder their self-actualization.

    I know you're going to stop being a destructive asshole.

    But didn’t you also accuse me of sounding like a sociopath? Believing you “know” what a person is going to do is a mistake. You can develop a reasonable belief about what another person will probably do in given situation based off their past actions and what they tell you about their beliefs. But all humans can lie, all can deceive, all can panic, pure altruism is rare. Most will default to protecting themselves and their tribe in a worst case scenario; that’s trap of populism. It creates tribes but if the demagogue begins to crack, abuse their power, declines morally, or fails to deliver on promises, the tribe would rather sail into annihilation than risk replacing their captain because to do so would admit they’ve been played, compromised their own integrity, and might result in a captain that alters course.

    Allyship is not friendship. I stated clearly in an earlier response that there’s plenty of leftists I recognize as allies in the fight that is in front of us, but it doesn’t mean I am your friend, believe you’re mine, nor that the process of deconstructing and building a new America is going to be some peachy keen utopian world healing event. Libertarians are a great example of this. They have been perfectly content to support Trumpism when they thought it would be treading on everyone else but themselves despite being warned “it doesn’t care enough about you as an individual to ensure your life isn’t destroyed as a byproduct”. Now they are beginning to trickle to the left’s doorstep looking for allies. Trusting them is situational. I’d trust one in a firefight against the Feds, but I wouldn’t trust one to be my ally long-term unless I saw some real personal growth along the way. They’ll go right back to “I got mine, fuck you” as soon as the threat to themselves is lifted and abandon the cause to hoard what they can. The French Resistance and Italian Partisans were coalitions of leftists and libertarians united to fight fascism. They managed to work together on common ground and a few pillars of shared morality, but they weren’t “friends” and didn’t all agree on the course forward once the Third Reich was consigned to history. You take what you can get when you can get it but it doesn’t mean you have to like it.

    We self-govern through consensus built upon arguments, debates, and demands for personal accountability, not through suppressing our values and morals to adopt ideology. Leaders serve at the will of the people, not because they make the best speeches or promises, and while we should all demand a high standard of personal accountability out of each other, people who offer themselves as leaders should subject themselves to an even greater degree of self-awareness. 

    Go back to your cave.

    Pull your head out of your ass. A decade of cheap comebacks telling MAGAts to “go back to wherever” didn’t do shit because people don’t live in isolation. We all live in society, we all participate in it. Wishing your opponents would be quite and disappear is a zero effort attitude and the longer you keep telling strangers on the internet to “go away”, the longer they have to spend recognizing you aren’t actually going to do anything to stop them while they build movements with real people and action. The Proud Boys became the J6ers became ICE while leftists built live stream followings. If you want to silence someone’s rhetoric and their ability to act on their beliefs, telling them to “go away” doesn’t make them go away. You have to draw the line of “it ends here” and accept the confrontation.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (6 children)

    You don't really expect me to read all that, do you? Can I get a tldr?

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (5 children)

    No. I get that it’s easier in the digital age to watch to a live stream and parrot the opinions you’ve adopted as if they’re your own, but if you want to have a stake in this movement and a say in what comes next you’re going to need to learn to read, debate, and engage. If you aren’t going to put in the effort here I have no reason to believe you’ll put in the effort when it actually matters.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (4 children)

    How about you write less fluff and get to the point? Three sentence summary, go. Whatever you say can't possibly be that important that I need your dissertation.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (2 children)

    Damn, it really hurt you that bad I didn't read you that you started making shit up, huh. 😂🤣 That's a good lesson to learn when you yourself are a destructive asshole who prioritizes some relatively petty shit in the grand scheme of things. Oh, what a faceplant. I'm taking this grin to bed.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (1 child)

    There’s nothing “relatively minor” about prioritizing the quality of life of another living being that is not in a position to make choices about it’s living situation or have a means of leaving that situation, double that when the people inflicting the harm could easily take accountability and rectify their behavior if their peers would demand it of them. We’ll eventually get around to violence and destruction so if we’re going down that path might as well get some revenge on the dog beaters, factory farmers, animal testers, and trophy hunters while we’re taking down the bigots, fascists, and capitalists.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago

    You really said let me sacrifice a whole country and succumb an entire ethnic group to Nazis because of a dog, huh. I'm glad it's not your kin on the frontlines, what a privilege that must be for you.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 child)

    The tactic of "They go low, we go high!" is suicidal.

    We had to drop demands for stronger secularism, both to court moderate christians into the left and in the hopes of an actual leftist Obama appearing. All it ended up with is that any time christian fundamentalists won more and more power, the loudest answer was "they're not real christians, real christians don't force anything onto other people, instead they're ought to love their atheist neighbors, their Muslim neighbors...".

    Now we are ought to "kill our idols", who sometimes are smaller creators (cough cough cancel culture), sometimes bigger ones, and we were ought to show our moral superiority to Asmongold (or whatever grifter is the hottest currently) fans by backstabbing ours after the slightest rumors. Humans are social animals, not "individualist thinkers" that are able to come to conclusions on their own. Annoying leftist creators are kind of necessary.

    We are rushing into a gunfight with no guns, not even knives, but nothing besides a smug feeling of moral superiority. We as well next should go back to the forest, or at least live on a "self-sustaining farm".

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  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    His dog lives a better life than most humans do and is well loved and taken care of. Source: Every single person who knows her in real life and interacts with them. Hell you can see it from their interactions on stream but you wouldn't know that since you don't watch clearly.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    You clearly don't know what you are talking about. Kaya has a great life and is not treated like an object simply because her bed is on stream. News flash if your dog likes you they will actually choose to be around you even when you are just doing boring stuff and sitting at a desk and especially when they understand their routines and know they have a dog walk at a specific time each day and have already done other enrichment activities. Hasan/Kaya's schedule isn't unknown if you watched a few streams you would know it, but again you clearly don't watch. They can simply relax because they know they have times of the day they will get to run around and get their energy out. Kaya is well trained too, which clearly shows a bond between Hasan and her and its extremely common to use treats during training.

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  • [–] 0 points 4 months ago

    A dog is like a child, it has no legal rights to its self and lacks the ability to withdraw from an abusive situation and seek a better environment or companion. It just makes do with what is offered even if its base needs (food/shelter/water) are met. Of course it will “love” whoever provides that because that’s all they have, and they’ll suffer the less savory parts in between because, again, that’s all they have.

    Do you really think that so long as basic needs are met, training/conditioning another living being to fit your schedule and harsh rebukes when inconvenienced by their expression of independent mind are acceptable?

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  • [+] -6 points 4 months ago* (3 children)

    I dunno, I agree with a lot of things he says but I watched that video with the dog and it looks pretty clear to me that he did have a shock collar on the dog.

    He may not have actually pressed it on screen, but he moved his hand to it and the dog knew exactly what that meant and you could see it in the reaction.

    The fact he seemingly wants to force an animal to sit in the corner like an ornament for his stream in the first place is also particularly problematic.

    That all being said, I don't think he should be banned from the UK and Elon should be banned and his businesses banned.

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    That didn't happen.

    And if it did, it wasn't that bad.

    And if it was, that's not a big deal.

    And if it is, that's not my fault.

    And if it was, I didn't mean it.

    And if I did, you deserved it.

    - the Narcissist Prayer, written by Dayna Craig

    Welcome to step 3, ye flying monkeys.

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  • [–] 7 points 4 months ago (14 children)
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  • [–] 13 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    He did not shock his dog, but there is a clip where he reaches off screen and then the dog, who was moving at the time, yelps.

    Circumstantial evidence at best, but of course the haters RAN with it. No one wants the anti-gambling, anti-zionist, anti-capitalist streamer to be popular. It’s incredible the bullshit they spread about this guy.

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  • [–] 16 points 4 months ago (6 children)

    He’s a bit of a tankie-lite talking piece, but iirc he went on a boat to deliver aid to Cuba so he’s done some good.

    The UK is only banning him because he’s anti-Zionist tho.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (4 children)

    He's also a bit of a show boater, showing up to protests and getting all the attention because of his star power.

    I'd also say he tends to soften his critiques in person, where he might get something right, he'll not stick to his guns when confronted.

    None of if that makes him wrong per se. But the people who have eaten the anti-hasan hasbara.. well they are indeed a special breed of hog

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  • [–] 24 points 4 months ago* (3 children)

    Or rather, he’s bringing attention to the protests using his star power that they wouldn’t otherwise get from mainstream media.

    Also, didn’t most or all of the socialist-leaning anti-Zionist candidates he campaigned with win their primaries?

    If you have a platform, use it. Dude’s meeting people where they are, not sure how that’s for “clout” now that real change is being made. Why do you think Fox News is constantly up his ass now?

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    Yeah I fully agree, and I don't agree with the critics. I'm just giving voice to concerns I've heard levied from people who make organizing protests and streaming protests what they do. Hasan shows up and suddenly it's about them not what they were protesting. And Hasan has acknowledged this and been explicit about not wanting to do that, but it's an unfortunate artifact that comes from their star power. So they don't do it very often.

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    suddenly it's about them not what they were protesting.

    That's only how it is being framed by his critics and their fans, who still think there's something in trying to scrutinize the dog collar.

    Every case that I have seen of Hasan, be it showing up at rallies, supporting a candidate, or joining the convoy: his presence is welcomed, seen as valuable and benedicial to the protest, politician, or cause.

    Only time I can think where his presence was treated as a liability was the 2024 DNC.

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