▲ 795 ▼ "They're the same picture" (lemmy.ml) submitted 1 year ago by dessalines@lemmy.ml to c/memes@lemmy.ml 130 comments fedilink hide all child comments
[+] Forester@pawb.social -28 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (9 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 9 child comments replies: [–] dessalines@lemmy.ml [S] 44 points 1 year ago* (1 child) Diseases did not conquer hundreds of tribes. The history of the new world is a one of campaigns of war and conquest against indigenous peoples. The fact that many are ignorant of this history is part of the whitewashing project. I linked some audiobooks below so you can learn this history. If the nazis won, they would teach you about the shoah in exactly the same way western nations teach you about the colonization of the americas. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] LemmeAtEm@lemmy.ml 29 points 1 year ago Diseases did not conquer hundreds of tribes. Disease played a major role in the European's ability to conquer those tribes. It's not an either/or situation. It is true that the "Americas" that the English started colonizing had already been devastated by the contagions brought by the Spanish. The English undoubtedly would have found it far more difficult and maybe even impossible to conquer those hundreds of tribes had they not first been so severely depopulated by pandemic. Acknowledging this does not absolve or even lessen the atrocities committed by the English. permalink fedilink source parent [–] HiddenLayer555@lemmy.ml 15 points 1 year ago That's supposed to make it better? permalink fedilink source parent [–] lightnsfw@reddthat.com 4 points 1 year ago So? The point is Europeans nearly wiped them out. Disease surely helped but they were making sure to finish the job. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Strawberry@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 1 year ago (1 child) The upper estimates are around 90%. It's likely lower. But even an order of magnitude like that is not "wiped out". Millions of people still lived on the land permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] Forester@pawb.social 3 points 1 year ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Strawberry@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 point 1 year ago Cool so you are saying millions of people aren't worth consideration. And I'm not your brother permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies) [–] edel@lemmy.ml -1 points 1 year ago (2 children) Very true, but Spaniards did not know about the lack of immunity from European diseases and never had that intention for erasure of Indigenous. The English, that colonized 2 centuries after the Spaniards, used European diseases as an additional tool for complete genocide on indigenous. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Forester@pawb.social 15 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] edel@lemmy.ml 11 points 1 year ago Germ theory was unknown then and those Spaniards lacked understanding of contagion, well I'm lying, the people then knew about contagion with blood and corpses but not through items like air or blankets. The disease spread, while catastrophic it was fully unintentional. The only accounts like the famed Bartolomé de las Casas described the diseases as "divine punishment" or "mysterious plague", never as a warfare tool. However with the British, again more than 2 centuries later, there was knowledge and intent as per Jeffrey Amherst and Colonel Henry Bouquet discussing it "Could it not be contrived to send the smallpox among the disaffected tribes?" "I will try to inoculate them with some blankets…" during the Siege of Fort Pitt (1763). permalink fedilink source parent [–] HiddenLayer555@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 year ago So Spanish are just as bad as the English then. That doesn't help your case. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies)
[–] dessalines@lemmy.ml [S] 44 points 1 year ago* (1 child) Diseases did not conquer hundreds of tribes. The history of the new world is a one of campaigns of war and conquest against indigenous peoples. The fact that many are ignorant of this history is part of the whitewashing project. I linked some audiobooks below so you can learn this history. If the nazis won, they would teach you about the shoah in exactly the same way western nations teach you about the colonization of the americas. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] LemmeAtEm@lemmy.ml 29 points 1 year ago Diseases did not conquer hundreds of tribes. Disease played a major role in the European's ability to conquer those tribes. It's not an either/or situation. It is true that the "Americas" that the English started colonizing had already been devastated by the contagions brought by the Spanish. The English undoubtedly would have found it far more difficult and maybe even impossible to conquer those hundreds of tribes had they not first been so severely depopulated by pandemic. Acknowledging this does not absolve or even lessen the atrocities committed by the English. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] LemmeAtEm@lemmy.ml 29 points 1 year ago Diseases did not conquer hundreds of tribes. Disease played a major role in the European's ability to conquer those tribes. It's not an either/or situation. It is true that the "Americas" that the English started colonizing had already been devastated by the contagions brought by the Spanish. The English undoubtedly would have found it far more difficult and maybe even impossible to conquer those hundreds of tribes had they not first been so severely depopulated by pandemic. Acknowledging this does not absolve or even lessen the atrocities committed by the English. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] HiddenLayer555@lemmy.ml 15 points 1 year ago That's supposed to make it better? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] lightnsfw@reddthat.com 4 points 1 year ago So? The point is Europeans nearly wiped them out. Disease surely helped but they were making sure to finish the job. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Strawberry@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 1 year ago (1 child) The upper estimates are around 90%. It's likely lower. But even an order of magnitude like that is not "wiped out". Millions of people still lived on the land permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] Forester@pawb.social 3 points 1 year ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Strawberry@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 point 1 year ago Cool so you are saying millions of people aren't worth consideration. And I'm not your brother permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies)
[+] Forester@pawb.social 3 points 1 year ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Strawberry@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 point 1 year ago Cool so you are saying millions of people aren't worth consideration. And I'm not your brother permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Strawberry@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 point 1 year ago Cool so you are saying millions of people aren't worth consideration. And I'm not your brother permalink fedilink source parent
[–] edel@lemmy.ml -1 points 1 year ago (2 children) Very true, but Spaniards did not know about the lack of immunity from European diseases and never had that intention for erasure of Indigenous. The English, that colonized 2 centuries after the Spaniards, used European diseases as an additional tool for complete genocide on indigenous. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Forester@pawb.social 15 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] edel@lemmy.ml 11 points 1 year ago Germ theory was unknown then and those Spaniards lacked understanding of contagion, well I'm lying, the people then knew about contagion with blood and corpses but not through items like air or blankets. The disease spread, while catastrophic it was fully unintentional. The only accounts like the famed Bartolomé de las Casas described the diseases as "divine punishment" or "mysterious plague", never as a warfare tool. However with the British, again more than 2 centuries later, there was knowledge and intent as per Jeffrey Amherst and Colonel Henry Bouquet discussing it "Could it not be contrived to send the smallpox among the disaffected tribes?" "I will try to inoculate them with some blankets…" during the Siege of Fort Pitt (1763). permalink fedilink source parent [–] HiddenLayer555@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 year ago So Spanish are just as bad as the English then. That doesn't help your case. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies)
[+] Forester@pawb.social 15 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] edel@lemmy.ml 11 points 1 year ago Germ theory was unknown then and those Spaniards lacked understanding of contagion, well I'm lying, the people then knew about contagion with blood and corpses but not through items like air or blankets. The disease spread, while catastrophic it was fully unintentional. The only accounts like the famed Bartolomé de las Casas described the diseases as "divine punishment" or "mysterious plague", never as a warfare tool. However with the British, again more than 2 centuries later, there was knowledge and intent as per Jeffrey Amherst and Colonel Henry Bouquet discussing it "Could it not be contrived to send the smallpox among the disaffected tribes?" "I will try to inoculate them with some blankets…" during the Siege of Fort Pitt (1763). permalink fedilink source parent [–] HiddenLayer555@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 year ago So Spanish are just as bad as the English then. That doesn't help your case. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] edel@lemmy.ml 11 points 1 year ago Germ theory was unknown then and those Spaniards lacked understanding of contagion, well I'm lying, the people then knew about contagion with blood and corpses but not through items like air or blankets. The disease spread, while catastrophic it was fully unintentional. The only accounts like the famed Bartolomé de las Casas described the diseases as "divine punishment" or "mysterious plague", never as a warfare tool. However with the British, again more than 2 centuries later, there was knowledge and intent as per Jeffrey Amherst and Colonel Henry Bouquet discussing it "Could it not be contrived to send the smallpox among the disaffected tribes?" "I will try to inoculate them with some blankets…" during the Siege of Fort Pitt (1763). permalink fedilink source parent
[–] HiddenLayer555@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 year ago So Spanish are just as bad as the English then. That doesn't help your case. permalink fedilink source parent