mechoman444 comments on Someone's cutting onions

[–] mechoman444@lemmy.world -3 points 7 months ago (7 children)

You do realize that multiple other genocides have happened since the American massacre of Native Americans?

There isn’t a single country on this planet that doesn’t have black smears all over its history.

And if a country’s history isn’t quite as bad as America’s, its people are just as shitty as they are everywhere else. Humans are terrible, vile, disgusting creatures that trample over everything they touch.

It’s easy to blame America, and as much as I truly dislike our government and our current president, I still love my country, its people, and living here.

Moreover, I couldn’t care less how much credibility I have in the comment section of a Lemmy post.

If you think you can stand on your laurels because you’re not American, once again, you can quietly go fuck yourself.

And the beautiful thing is, as an American, I get to say that to whoever the hell I want.

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[–] TigerAce@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (6 children)

You do realize that multiple other genocides have happened since the American massacre of Native Americans?

Yeah I do. Like the one in Palestine right now, which is supported by the US. Your tax money is used to kill innocent people, including thousands of children.

There isn’t a single country on this planet that doesn’t have black smears all over its history.

Can you support your claim? What are the black smears in the history of Greenland? Or Iceland? Other than US involvement or initiation, because the US did build a nuclear missile silo in the ice on Greenland.

And if a country’s history isn’t quite as bad as America’s, its people are just as shitty as they are everywhere else. Humans are terrible, vile, disgusting creatures that trample over everything they touch.

Again, can you support your claim? How much countries have you visited? Ever been to Cambodia or Philippines for example? The people there are extremily nice and totally not selfish and narcissistic.

The way you grow up, the location, it's culture, regulations, wealth, etc. have a large influence on how people become. When you grow up in a fascist state where education is optional, religion is central and politicians constantly spread fear, the chance of becoming an asshole yourself are significantly higher than when you grow up is a safe and healthy environment with proper education.

I still love my country

Why though, we just talked about dark smeres in the history of countries yet the US is still doing it, for 250 years already and doesn't seem to stop any time soon. But let's forget history for a moment. Let's look at what the US is today: Slavery, corruption, war crimes, crimes against humanity, broken judicial system, corrupt voting system, extreme wealth inequality, insane amounts of suffering on so many levels for most of your fellow countrymen. Your president is a known criminal, child sex offender, and behaves like a toddler version of Hitler. Your country bombed 5 countries this year, that we know of. Kidnapped a president, caused a global oil crisis.

Please, tell me, what is there to love?

And the beautiful thing is, as an American, I get to say that to whoever the hell I want.

Also at a cop? ICE agents? A mad neighbor with a gun? I mean, yeah, sure you can say it, but anyone all over the world can say it. It's just that for some people there are more consequences than for others. And when it comes to freedom of press, the US isn't doing great. At least far worse than my country. On the world press freedom ranking the US ranks number 57 in 2025, between Sierra Leone and Gambia.

you can quietly go fuck yourself.

Right back at ya man. I find your responses highly ignorant. How much do you actually know of the world, how much have you seen, really? I have traveled to most continents, been to war zones, to enriched oil states, to poor heavily underdeveloped countries, countries in isolation, seen the most horrific and most beautiful things, met amazing and awful people. How wide is your sphere of influence?

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[–] mechoman444@lemmy.world -3 points 7 months ago (5 children)

Doofis. I am fully aware of what my country is doing. I don't like it, I want it to stop. I didn't vote for Trump or anyone in his party.

Rwandan Genocide — ~800,000 Tutsi and moderate Hutu killed Srebrenica Massacre — ~8,000 Bosniak men and boys killed Darfur Genocide — mass killings, displacement of millions Cambodian Genocide — ~1.7–2 million dead Uyghur Persecution — mass detention, forced labor, cultural suppression Syrian Civil War Atrocities — chemical attacks, civilian targeting Yazidi Genocide — killings, enslavement Tigray War Atrocities — mass killings, famine conditions Bosnian War Ethnic Cleansing — systematic expulsions and killings Second Congo War Atrocities — millions dead from violence and starvation.

Other atrocities occur in other countries. This is not uniquely an American problem; it is a human one.

The people of my country are not inherently bad. The politicians are, and so are many of the people who vote for them. Even then, those voters are often manipulated by the very politicians they support.

All you are doing is fixating on how flawed we are. That criticism is not entirely wrong, we are flawed. However, there are individuals within our government, and within the population at large, who actively resist and attempt to correct those failures.

Your position is not elevated, and your perspective is not as advanced as you believe. What you present is not insight, it is hostility, masked as moral superiority. It is pervasive, and I observe it frequently on Lemmy.

Your capacity for hatred is no more justified than the actions you condemn. It differs only in form, not in substance.

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[–] TigerAce@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 7 months ago (4 children)

Other atrocities occur in other countries. This is not uniquely an American problem; it is a human one.

Ok, so because there are other bad people who did bad things next to Americans, all people are bad?

What is a uniquely American problem, is that the US doesn't stop but increases in horrible crimes and world tension. Well, ok, next to Israel.

Look at Russia, North Korea, Turkmenistan, Eritrea, etc. There it's just a few who took power and keep the population imprisoned.

In Israel and the US most people support the atrocities, they voted the current dictators into office multiple time In the US even a second time knowing what he has done, while the opposition is also right wing and dumb fucks. If the majority of the US was against the system as it is, why are there no political parties representing that large part of the population? I thought you lived in the land of the free? The awesome USA where everything is possible? But the only population representation is either right or extreme right wing. It's a fascist state where the majority chose for and most support the war crimes and crimes against humanity which have been going on since the beginning of the nation. Except for one time, when half of the country wasn't happy with a part of slavery, so they fought about it. Now there's still slavery, but with conditions, while the majority supports the constitution. The country is just pure evil and filled with horrible people. Not everyone, but maaaaany. Same with Israel. Not just a handful suppressing the rest, like with other dictatorships or done by parties in history who did those horrible crimes you listed. Just loads of brainwashed fanatics who support bombing children, ethnic cleansing, inequality, taking away people their rights, slavery when incarcerated, death penalty, owning guns and having the right to kill someone, even if it would risk their own kid's life.

All you are doing is fixating on how flawed we are. That criticism is not entirely wrong, we are flawed.

Yeah. That's my point. You're not the only country that is flawed, but you're the biggest mess out there.

However, there are individuals within our government, and within the population at large, who actively resist and attempt to correct those failures.

Politically? Yeah, like sending "a strong letter" to Trump. That's going to fix all your problems. Or endless peaceful protesting, while clearly no one gives a shit and continues what they are doing. The thing Americans mostly do is complain they are the victims. In a way they are, but by choosing for it or by not doing anything at all. That's the thing with Americans, they are so self centered. "Oh my country is turning towards fascism. Ah well, not my problem, let someone else do something about it." Yeah, if everyone thinks like that, nothing is going to change.

What you present is not insight, it is hostility, masked as moral superiority. It is pervasive, and I observe it frequently on Lemmy.

Yeah, I'm hostile towards people who defend fascism, war crimes, crimes against humanity, racism, inequality, corruption etc. The USA is just that right now. So when you say, "as an American", that I can go fuck myself, why do you expect me not to be hostile towards you? And let me remind you, you started with telling me to go fuck myself several times, talking about hostility. It's just in my last reply that I said "right back at ya".

My initial post was a comment about a single guy who risks his kids becoming parentless because he wants to go on a rocket to the moon. You made it all a USA thing.

I do feel I have a higher moral and am actively fighting for it. I don't mean comments on Lemmy, but actively fighting against inequality, racism, fascism and corruption irl. I can't change the world, but in my country I'm active trying to make the world around me a bit better and try to influence as much as possible to do the same. If my country would turn fascist, I wouldn't just sit on the sidelines, complain on the internet how much I hate it while doing nothing about it. Like I did with our previous cabinet, which was right wing. Not that I'm happy with the current one, but I'm still active making my city, province and country a better place.

I am happy and privileged I was born here. Life is good, life is safe. There are a lot of nice people. Not all, as usual, also a lot of assholes, but yeah, life is good. But do I love my country? Fuck no. I'm deeply ashamed of our black stains in history, I'm ashamed of not having a stronger stance globally against the atrocities in the world right now (including the US), I'm ashamed of the nasty trade deals we make with developing countries, etc.

How could I love something if there's a dark side to it? Like, if you have a friend you love and it turns out he likes raping kids, would you still love the guy because he's also fun to drink beer with? I tend to distance myself from evil, and fight it. Not to love it because it also has a few good sides.

But next to being privileged by being born here, I also helped people in developing countries, in war zones, I saved lives by rescuing boats full of drowning refugees trying to cross the Mediterranean, among other things.

I have seen the good and bad in the world while traveling. And although I haven't seen everything, I believe my view on things is based on many experiences and different perspectives and isn't black and white, but very nuanced.

You have dodged all my questions about how much you have seen of the world. How many times you left the USA. You have a strong opinion, but if you've always seen things from one spot, there isn't much perspective, is there?

Your capacity for hatred is no more justified than the actions you condemn. It differs only in form, not in substance.

So my capacity for hating genocide is no more justified than genocide itself? Is it really?

At least I turn my hatred into actions to make this world just a little bit better for as much people as possible, so far I've managed to improve at least the lives of some. Instead of telling people online to go fuck themselves because I love my extremily evil country, while the taxes I pay are partly used to kill kids en masse on the other side of the world. Seriously dude, not the hill I would die on.

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[–] mechoman444@lemmy.world -2 points 7 months ago (3 children)

You’re arguing as if you’ve uncovered some moral truth, but your entire position collapses under its own inconsistency.

You claim people in countries like Russia or North Korea aren’t responsible because they’re controlled by systems and leadership. Fine. That’s a defensible position.

But then you turn around and apply the exact opposite standard to the United States.

So which is it?

Are people shaped by systems they don’t fully control, or are they fully morally responsible for everything their government does?

You don’t get to switch between those depending on which country you’re criticizing. That’s not moral clarity. That’s selective reasoning. You’re giving populations you sympathize with the benefit of context, while denying that same context to Americans. That is a textbook double standard.

And then you take it one step further. You generalize that entire population and justify your hostility toward them. That’s not some enlightened stance. It is the same kind of broad brush thinking you claim to oppose, just pointed in a different direction. Your moral high ground depends entirely on ignoring nuance when it is inconvenient.

You also keep insisting your hatred is justified because it is aimed at injustice. No. That is not how that works. Hatred does not become virtuous because you feel strongly about your target. All it is doing here is pushing you into lazy conclusions, like blaming millions of people as if they are a single actor.

If people are influenced by propaganda, limited political choices, and systemic pressure, as you yourself admit in other contexts, then collective guilt falls apart. And if collective guilt falls apart, your justification for hating entire populations falls apart with it. You cannot have it both ways. Either people are products of their systems, in which case your anger should be directed with precision, or they are fully responsible individuals, in which case you need to apply that standard universally, including to places you are currently excusing.

Right now, you are not being principled. You are being inconsistent and then dressing it up as morality.

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[–] TigerAce@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (2 children)

You change my words. I never said I hated an entire population. I told you what I'm against: injustice and the states the USA and Israel (there are more, but we're talking about these now).

Next to that I said I dislike how self centered most Americans are, and I explained this comes because of education, culture, religion, etc.

You can't change what I said and attack me for being inconsistent in what I said.

But then you turn around and apply the exact opposite standard to the United States.

Ok, let's see. Elections in North Korea, 98% of the country voted for the leader of the only party: Mr. Kim. How did the elections go in the US? The same? Are people forced to vote for one person, or else face procecution for their entire family and forced labor for 5 generations in concentration camps? Or is it like the referendum held by Russia in the stolen provinces of Ukraine, where people voted to be a part of Russia, when the Russian military dragged people from their house and made them vote at gunpoint.

So you really want to say that your country is in the same situation, and the leadership in your country is doing the same and did the same to come to power?

Again, you avoid my questions. You attack me with points that are based on your wrong assumptions, wrong conclusions and bad reading.

All I said was that I'm against injustice and the people responsible for it. You changed that into hate. That's debatable, but sure. I went with it. I said many Americans are partly responsible, either for doing it or for not doing anything against it. I never said all Americans are responsible. I just explained that the USA is not the same as Russia or North Korea as people are free to vote and join politics, to defend their political view without prosecution (until now at least). But the point I'm making is that the few that rose up against right wing, like Bernie Sanders (even though he's only slightly left of the centre), their support is mediocre, nation wide, compared to the right wing politicians. Even a centre politician who became mayor of New York, Mamdani, is seen as far left by most Americans. That implicaties that those "most Americans" are right wing oriented. Which makes sense when you see the general political representation in your country, which is right or extreme right, while people are free to create a left political party or steer the democrats more to the left. But instead the left is dying out there. In a free, democratic country, where you are free to tell anyone to go fuck themselves, right? Well, not for long I recon.

All it is doing here is pushing you into lazy conclusions, like blaming millions of people as if they are a single actor.

I worked in Intel for 15 years. I don't make lazy conclusions. Like I said before, I've seen a lot of places on this planet, seen many different perspectives. I don't jump to conclusions because I read something on Facebook. Again, the question, how wide is your perspective, how much have you traveled, how much have you seen of the world?

If people are influenced by propaganda, limited political choices, and systemic pressure, as you yourself admit in other contexts, then collective guilt falls apart.

Yeah, if people do not live in a free democratic country, that applies indeed.

your justification for hating entire populations

Again, something you made up.

Hey buddy, was nice talking to ya mate, let me go fuck myself with my moral compass, let you go fuck yourself loving your amazing country, and leave it there. I don't want to have an argument with someone who argues against words put into my mouth, who keeps avoiding my questions and who defends loving a state which is responsible for horrific acts happening right now, while also claiming not being responsible at all.

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends.

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[–] mechoman444@lemmy.world -2 points 7 months ago (1 child)

In Israel and the US most people support the atrocities

Next to that I said I dislike how self centered most Americans are, and I explained this comes because of education, culture, religion, etc

This is you making generalizations about the vast majority of the population of America.

I haven’t been addressing much of what you’re saying because I’ve been trying to stay on topic, but you’re employing the Kent Hovind method of misconstruing information, specifically his preferred tactic known as the Gish gallop.

I will briefly address a few points you made. First, Greenland is not a country; it is a territory of Denmark, with a population of roughly 50,000 people. Second, Iceland is somewhat more defensible, as it is often seen as a model for societal behavior, similar to New Zealand and various Scandinavian nations. Even so, it is not difficult to identify controversies within its borders. For example, Iceland has a history of miscarriages of justice, including the use of prolonged solitary confinement during investigations. Ironically, the United States shares this issue. Nevertheless, it remains a blemish on Iceland’s record.

The primary issue is that you are attempting to defend what is effectively indefensible. You do not gain the moral high ground simply by stating that you dislike America. By that logic, I could just as easily claim to dislike Iceland based on its treatment of individuals within its legal system.

You are making broad assumptions and generalizations about an entire population within one of the largest and most influential countries on Earth. Regardless of your perspective, that is an objective reality. You are grouping together the worst actions of the country and applying them wholesale, creating a framework that positions you as morally superior while condemning anyone associated with it.

Pardon the use of the comparison, but it feels warranted. You sound like Adolf Hitler. You will likely reject that characterization and respond at length to refute it, but that is how your argument comes across.

I have already spent more time on this than it merits, and I have no interest in continuing to engage. Good day.

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[–] TigerAce@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Such an American response. Instead of responding to my arguments, you attack me on things that I didn't say. You change my words, avoid my arguments and my questions, get offensive by telling me to fuck off and to top it off, call me Hitler. Classic Trump playbook, call anyone you don't like Hitler and/or a communist while avoiding critical questions. You're such a self centered ignorant American who has no clue on how the world works. You're just proving my point about the average American. Talking about Hitler, the US right now is in the same stage as nazi Germany near the end of the 1930's.

Only fascists would make a claim they love their fascist country.

Let that fucking marinate mate. Cheers.

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