you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] 43 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (29 children)

I kind of feel the opposite way. I mean, will it be any good without Joss?

(I'm all for taking moral stances against artists, but he was canceled for being a dick, not for any of the much better reasons other people were canceled.)

Edit: also, Adam Baldwin is way, way more problematic.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 29 child comments
  • [–] 26 points 7 months ago (5 children)

    I find his style cringey and out of date. Plus he wasn't just a dick. He was championed as this great writer of women and a feminist in Hollywood while treating his stars like shit.

    It's also hard for me to not see how he directed for the male gaze. If there are boobs, they're low cut with some jiggle. (Ex: In The Avengers, there's a woman that Cap saves. She gushes to a reporter afterwards. The scene that establishes her as a character who met Cap earlier? That was cut, but he kept the boob shots.)

    Adam Baldwin may be worse but we are talking a paycheck for voicework compared to, say, showrunner status for Whedon.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 5 child comments
  • [–] 7 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    If that changes your perspective on this show, Tudyk and Fillon among don't mind praising him in a personal level right now. They have a podcast together I found recently and in the last show they invited another common friends of his.

    I don't follow what happened, I don't really care much about who's who on the media (except when the fucking critical drinker appeared in an audiobook), but I was surprised after all the negative feeling I've seen

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 6 points 7 months ago

    I don't wanna judge those with personal relationships with Whedon. Everyone is free to have their viewpoint, especially when they have history together.

    Plus I still rewatch some of his stuff. I'm not perfect either.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 11 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    I certainly agree with your reservations. However i wonder if it would matter either way. Is he even capable of that kind of writing and creativity anymore? Recapturing the magic of something you made 20 years ago is not easy to do. People change a lot.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 11 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Did his writing fall off? Is there something in his later work that was really bad? If not, I don't see any reason to think he couldn't do it again, and he's probably got more ideas on how to do it than anyone.

    Twenty years ago he was the only one who could do it. He wrote the manual on genre-bridging action/comedy storytelling with an ensemble cast. It's why Avengers worked when it probably shouldn't have, and any similar successful properties since then have followed his lead.

    I'm not trying to deify the guy, but I think the unique nature of his talent is swept under the rug since he got canceled.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago

    The fact that people change a lot is a big problem for me with Firefly to begin with, because I loved Firefly, but...I was like 17 when I watched it. I'm in my late 30s now. I do not feel the same about it anymore already, in ways where I don't think it should come back at all.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (5 children)

    Being a huge dick is good enough for me to not want to watch his media. He was really toxic and I don't want to support that. The fact that the abuse was not sexual doesn't mean it was not bad.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 5 child comments
  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    That's fair. I'm just saying it's less of a dealbreaker for me personally than if he were racist or sexually abusive.

    Or like if he'd been a leader of a harassment campaign against women and minorities that led to the rise of the alt right, like Adam Baldwin, that'd be a hard dealbreaker.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    You seem not to be understanding what I'm saying.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] -1 points 7 months ago (5 children)

    He wasn't cancelled for "being a dick", he was cancelled for being a serial abuser and sex pest.

    Don't try to rewrite history just cause you liked the guy before it was revealed

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 5 child comments
  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    Who accused him of being a "sex pest"? When did that happen? Because I double checked before my comment and triple checked just now.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [–] -1 points 7 months ago* (3 children)

    Last I heard he was making women feel uncomfortable by asking coercive questions, and one of the male actors that worked with him refused to let him be alone in a room with women for fear that he'd be creepy towards them and make them uncomfortable

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    So you're just accusing me of rewriting history based on your memory?

    The thing about not letting him alone with Michelle Trachtenberg was because he was an abusive dick and she was a kid. If there was a sexual component to it, nobody ever mentioned it. As far as I can find, none of the accusations against him are sexual in nature.

    Abusive, misogynistic even, sure. But not sexual.

    So when you accused me of rewriting history...

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] -1 points 7 months ago (6 children)

    When did Baldwin sexually assault people?

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 6 child comments
  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    He didn’t, where did you get that? He did have a part in the origin of “#GamerGate” in that he’s often cited as the first use of the hashtag when sharing a few videos talking about the original ‘thezoepost’ blog post. He’s mostly just kind of a huge asshole based on the things he has posted or said publicly but he’s never been associated or accused of any substantive abuses AFAIK.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [–] -4 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    That is my point, meanwhile Joss Wheaton is accused of Harvey Winestein style abuse.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago

    Except that isn’t the case at all. Whedon has been accused of being inappropriate, verbally abusive, and creating toxic work environments. Weinstein has been convicted of sexual assault and charged with multiple rapes. None of this is said in defense of these monsters but equating them to the same level of abuse is simply factually incorrect.

  • source
  • parent