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Party like it's 1922 20th Century History (media.piefed.social)
submitted 8 months ago by to c/historymemes@piefed.social
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[–] [S] 2 points 8 months ago (5 children)

First of all, I don’t really know of anyone calling Konstadt rebellion to be led by anarchist. They were ardent communist who became disillusioned over time due to poor working conditions.

... would you like to remind me what the second point in the demands made by the sailors was?

Secondly, out of the 15k men who held the fort, it’s thought that around 10k escaped to Finland during the fighting, all while killing around 10k soldiers of the red army.

Fucking what

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago (4 children)

    would you like to remind me what the second point in the demands made by the sailors was?

    Demanding freedom of speech doesn't really make you an anarchist?

    Fucking what

    "Both sides suffered casualties on par with the civil war's deadliest battles. The American consulate at Vyborg estimated 10,000 Bolsheviks dead, wounded, or missing, including 15 Congress delegates. Finland asked Russia to remove the bodies on the ice, fearing a public health hazard after the thaw. There are no reliable reports for rebel deaths, but one report estimated 600 dead, 1,000 wounded, and 2,500 imprisoned".....Faced with the prospect of summary executions, about 8,000 Kronstadt refugees (mostly soldiers)[200] crossed into Finland within a day of Kronstadt's fall, about half of the rebel forces.

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  • [–] 3 points 8 months ago

    Hey, I'm gonna be real with you, yeah? The 1917 Revolution wasn't just the Bolsheviks' doing, y'know? Loads of groups had a part in it. But the Bolsheviks took advantage of the whole situation to impose their own structure. And when anyone didn't see things their way, they had no problem killing 'em, just so no one would question their ideas.

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 8 months ago (2 children)

    Demanding freedom of speech doesn’t really make you an anarchist?

    I wonder why they were demanding freedom of speech for, specifically, left-socialist and anarchist groups?

    They must have mentioned them for no particular reason. /s

    Both sides suffered casualties on par with the civil war’s deadliest battles. The American consulate at Vyborg estimated 10,000 Bolsheviks dead, wounded, or missing, including 15 Congress delegates.

    1. That number offered by the American consulate isn't backed by Soviet archives, which cites ~3,400 dead of their own.

    2. "Dead or wounded" is a much broader category than "Dead"

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago (1 child)

    I wonder why they were demanding freedom of speech for, specifically, left-socialist and anarchist groups?

    and...... Meaning they weren't a commune of just anarchist. Just a year before they were all congratulated by Trotsky himself for being such ardent communist. As I said in the first place they were disgruntled with the system, but that doesn't automatically make it an anarchist rebellion. No one claimed there weren't anarchist among them.... It was the early 1900s in Russia, you couldn't throw a stone without hitting an anarchist.

    isn't backed by Soviet archives, which cites ~3,400 dead of their own.

    Ahh yes, the soviet's.... Famous for accurately archiving their casualties......

    Dead or wounded" is a much broader category than "Dead"

    And this is the reason for your dramatic rebuttal, or are we just being pedantic now?

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  • [–] [S] 3 points 8 months ago

    and…… Meaning they weren’t a commune of just anarchist. Just a year before they were all congratulated by Trotsky himself for being such ardent communist. As I said in the first place they were disgruntled with the system, but that doesn’t automatically make it an anarchist rebellion. No one claimed there weren’t anarchist among them…. It was the early 1900s in Russia, you couldn’t throw a stone without hitting an anarchist.

    This you, buddy?

    First of all, I don’t really know of anyone calling Konstadt rebellion to be led by anarchist. They were ardent communist who became disillusioned over time due to poor working conditions.

    Ahh yes, the soviet’s…. Famous for accurately archiving their casualties……

    Oh, is that where we're at? Other than the speculations of the American embassy at the time, which would not have had much access to sources beyond the talk circulating amongst mid-level Soviet officials, who were unlikely to have been exceptionally loose-lipped around the Americans, whose numbers are we relying on now?

    And this is the reason for your dramatic rebuttal, or are we just being pedantic now?

    "Wow, you really think it's IMPORTANT that I tripled the number of dead???"

    Yes.

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