China launched its most extensive war games around Taiwan on Monday to showcase Beijing's ability to cut off the island from outside support in a conflict, testing Taipei's resolve to defend itself and its arsenal of U.S.-made weapons.

The Eastern Theatre Command said it had deployed troops, warships, fighter jets and artillery for its "Justice Mission 2025" exercises to encircle the democratically governed island, conduct live fire and simulated strikes on land and sea targets, and drills to blockade Taiwan's main ports.

The live-firing exercises will continue on Tuesday across a record seven zones designated by China's Maritime Safety Administration, making the drills the largest to date by total coverage and in areas closer to Taiwan than previous exercises. The military had initially said artillery firing would be confined to five zones.

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[–] 154 points 10 months ago* (128 children)

WHHHAAAATTTTTT??!??!!!?

But all Lemmy.ml dwellers said China is not an imperialist country!!!!

This must be some shitty western propaganda!!!

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  • [–] 62 points 10 months ago (4 children)

    The CPC never controlled Taiwan so it's inaccurate to say it was stripped from them.

    US being imperialistic doesn't make encirclement and threats towards an autonomous island any less imperialistic. That's just whataboutism.

    If the CPC only cared about the security of their coastline then this aggressive military strategy makes little sense because it's only likely to increase the risk of conflict. Pursuing peace and closer ties with Taiwan would disarm the whole reason they have for working with the US. But of course that would require the CPC to respect their autonomy, which imperialists will never do.

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  • [–] 11 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    In one party states there is no distinction between the party and the state. If labor used its control of the government to outlaw, imprison, and murder everyone who tried to organize against them for 70 years then it would be reasonable to make a similar statement about their possession of say, Ireland. Not that they were ever entitled to Ireland, nor was China ever entitled to Taiwan.

    I don't acknowledge the territorial claims of nation-states since they're made up anyway. There's no moral justification for the idea that because some other political group that also called itself China once controlled Taiwan that it now belongs to the party that fought a war against the controllers of the island and exiled them there. Do you not see how crazy that is?

    The only people who have a claim to Taiwan are the people who live there and they do not seem interested in being subjugated by the CPC.

    For the record, the Cuban missile crisis was also created by a failed, imperialist foreign policy. If they had established peaceful relations with Cuba, there never would have been such a crisis. Just as I'm saying with Taiwan. Furthermore, the arms furnished to Taiwan are extremely different and less destructive than nuclear weapons. If the US decided to offer those to Taiwan, I imagine the reaction would be far more extreme than war games. It's simply not comparable. I personally don't think the US is much of a threat to China but perhaps that can be debated.

    By the way, it's incredibly ironic to call me a bootlicker as you apologize for imperial aggression against Taiwan... while I've done no such thing. I'll openly acknowledge that the US gov is a destabilizing malevolent force in the pacific. Something you'll never admit about the CPC despite abundant evidence.

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  • [–] 26 points 10 months ago (31 children)

    an island that was stripped away from one’s direct control by imperialists

    Can you elaborate on this? I love watching gymnastics.

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  • [–] 10 points 10 months ago* (27 children)

    My question was how exactly it was "stripped away from the CCP's control", which you didn't address at any point in your colourful answer. You yourself admit it was always Republican territory. so which is it, then?

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  • [–] 9 points 10 months ago (17 children)

    But by this logic, China is already in control of Taiwan, no? So why is the CPC threatening an invasion?

    Truth is that you can't really consider nations going through a civil war to be truly the same entity. I mean, they were literally fighting each other over control and claimed lands, bit strange if it's all the same China no?

    China (led by the CPC) is claiming lands it never controlled that are currently in control of China (led by the KMT). They're de facto separate nation states, and the communist one does not and has never controlled Taiwan. Its territorial claims come from it claiming to be the successor state (or continuation state) of the Republic of China (officially, Mao declared the foundation of a new People's Republic of China).

    This is a wildly different situation from e.g. Labour/Conservatives in the UK. Neither make competing territorial claims nor claim to both be in power at the same time. They also all serve the same government, which the CPC/KMT do not.

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  • [–] 4 points 10 months ago (15 children)

    You seem to be ignorant of the fact that the CPC did proclaim a new state, the People's Republic of China, succeeding the Republic of China. In their constitution, they made territorial claims regarding what parts of the world belong to it. Just read the proclamation made by Mao where this is plainly stated.

    You're also seemingly confused regarding what "de facto" means. It does not matter what various governments recognize to be the true China, that's more relevant for de jure. De facto speaking, the CPC has no control over Taiwan, and the KMT has no control over mainland China. They effectively govern separate states with separate territories, despite claims to the contrary (which are just claims and have no bearing on reality).

    Your Canada/Quebec example falls a bit flat on its face since for it to be a proper parallel, the Quebecois declaring a new government would have to have the same role as the CPC, which is the party in China that declared a new role, not the other way around.

    You're very stuck in a dogmatic view regarding what nations/nation states/governments are, and are ignoring the messy reality of civil wars.

    You don't see military coups making territorial claims, do you?

    This is just laughable, it's basically the first thing a military coup does, state which parts of the country it is in control of (and will soon control).

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  • [–] 9 points 10 months ago* (5 children)

    All of Palestine was declared Terra Nullus by the imperialist. It is they who setup the system of Westphalian nation-states. This is, as they call it, the rules-based order. The reality is that Palestine should have been granted nation-state status by the entire world decades ago, but racism prevented that from happening, and now we have the situation we have. Some nation states have officially recognized Palestine’s status as a nation-state, but it has not been enough and it is far too late to have immediate impacts.

    Wow, that's convenient for your argument - what a remarkable coincidence. Some nations recognize it, others don't, so who's to say? It's just too complicated and too late. 1948 was soooo long ago, unlike 1949 which is recent history. Plus the cession of Taiwan by Japan after WWII was definitely unambiguous, unlike Israel/Palestine. No issues there at all.

    As for whether my understanding is strange, I would ask you to consider why the KMT itself did not claim Taiwan to be an independent nation state for the 50 years where it was a one-party fascist dictatorship on the island. Why did they find it so important to establish that they were still a faction within China and not a secessionary movement away from China?

    Do you consider the fact that the civil war never officially ended may be a mitigating factor here?

    I didn’t decide that that’s what they would do. My understanding is fully inline with the understanding of the KMT and the CPC and the rest of official governments of the world. It’s really only the uninformed and the politically biased that have a strange understanding whereby the rules don’t matter, the never matter, and only what they believe is the correct moral answer, given their limited understanding, could ever be the right answer.

    If that's the case, why did over two decades pass until the west recognized the CPC's state at all? Was everybody uninformed until Nixon educated us?

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  • [–] 8 points 10 months ago* (3 children)

    I should have disengaged as soon as you spewed out that abhorrent take on Palestine, but you people are always a fountain of otherwise entertaining word salad. Re-read my comment - I never said the CPC was a state, I said the CPC's state (i.e. the PRC). Note the possessive. All states are ultumately bullshit, even the hypercapitalist dystopia you're slobbering over. It's all arbitrary and the only thing that really matters is what the people on the ground want. In the case of Palestine, it's unequivocally NOT to be a part of Israel. For the Taiwanese, >90% do NOT want to join the mainland. It's only authoritarian imperialists like you and Likud who still choose to impose their will on others despite their most vehement refusals.

    Likewise, you are attempting to recognize the existence of a Taiwanese state when there is no such thing to recognize. It has never been a nation-state, it has never claimed to be a nation-state, and no government has ever recognized as a nation-state.

    I'm going to assume you're just trolling at this point, because this is a bald-faced lie even by tankie standards. Not only is this obviously false if we consider Taiwan a de facto state as most western countries do, several other countries even still support Taiwan's claim over the mainland (which is absurd, but that's another story)

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  • [–] 15 points 10 months ago (10 children)

    Poor China trying to defend itself from the boolies 😭

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  • [–] 16 points 10 months ago (8 children)

    This is all whataboutism and has nothing to do with China threatening to invade Taiwan.

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  • [–] 13 points 10 months ago (6 children)

    No. I'm not engaging with a disingenuous person with an obvious bias. You claim to know all about this issue. I'm sure you won't have a problem finding it yourself.

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  • [–] 58 points 10 months ago (3 children)

    Did you read the fine print?

    .ml: "China is not imperialist*"

    "*because all of Asia, all islands, all African countries and all South American countries already belong to China"

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  • [–] 22 points 10 months ago (2 children)

    Prove it.

    You just made a falsifiable statement.

    Don't just spread tankie shit. Prove it.

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  • [–] 16 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    chinas stance towards the south china sea and taiwan is what this exaggeration for the purposes of comedy is based on

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  • [–] 23 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

    No, actually exactly as bad as that.

    Let us repeat this: China is as shitty as USA right now is. And in fact this is a recent development: USA used to be much better than China before Trump fucked everything up.

    If China was good, they would suggest in UN that Taiwan's independence is ratified. That they consistently fail to do so, and in fact actively block anyone else from doing it, is a clear display of their malevolence on this planet.

    Another proof of their evil is of course their consistent support on Russia's imperialist aggression on Ukraine.

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  • [–] 32 points 10 months ago (59 children)

    Why is it that talkies are having a very hard time understanding a difference between training to invade vs training to defend?

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  • [–] 14 points 10 months ago* (11 children)

    Whoever is trying to capture territory from the other side is the invader by definition, putting the other side on the defence, as per definition.

    Are you saying Estonia wants to invade Russia? Dude's clown costume's made from diamonds

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  • [–] 13 points 10 months ago (9 children)

    Expansionism can happen without official war declaration, but still a conflict. See: Tibet, Honk Kong, parts of Mongolia

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  • [–] 10 points 10 months ago (7 children)

    This is delusional and you know it. Some obsolete map you pulled out from history and somehow trying to present it as a valid argument. Taiwan just wants to be independant, they don't want to start conquering Asia, take the pills.

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  • [–] 9 points 10 months ago (9 children)

    Are you worried Taiwan is going to invade Beijing? Is chinas army that incompetent?

    I mean, it would be cool if they did but I don't think even corrupt Chinese generals are that worthless.

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  • [–] 7 points 10 months ago* (7 children)

    You are not sane.
    Either that, or it's your job.

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  • [–] 6 points 10 months ago (4 children)

    You know the word, but not its meaning.

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  • [–] 18 points 10 months ago* (21 children)

    "I had to kill him, officer, he was attending self defence classes with the intent to hit me."

    /s

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  • [–] 8 points 10 months ago* (11 children)

    Do you believe Taiwan is going to invade the PRC?

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  • [–] 4 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (2 children)

    In the case of any superpower actually being invaded, nukes would start flying everywhere. It wouldn't make a lick of difference if any island has 5 or 500 airbases.

    Are you really this dense?

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  • [–] 4 points 10 months ago

    miltary conflict or economic blockade of China

    So we're just lying now?

    And the concept of China even being bothered by a blockade? Lmfao what year do you think this is? You think this is some WWII Pacific Theater where aircraft carriers and islands and air strips matter? China has about 9000 miles of mainland coast and all the technology and expertise to defend or strike from any part of it. Taiwan, as they've demonstrated, could be locked down (or glassed) at whim.

    If they didn't have the annexation ambition, they could wave goodbye to an independent Taiwan today and be close allies in a decade. You accuse the USA of buying Taiwan as a puppet but there is literally nothing stopping China from doing the same thing (with better leverage). Hell, they've already shown they can take that route in other small countries but pride and greed prevents them from doing it in Taiwan.

    The fact is that they want hostility and instability in the region in the same way that Russia wants instability in Europe and the USA wants it in the Middle East. Little islands waving guns is a great excuse to step in and start "liberating" resources people.

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  • [–] 7 points 10 months ago (6 children)

    She was asking for it, did you see what she was wearing?

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  • [–] 5 points 10 months ago (7 children)

    Just like Russia was doing completely innocent military exercises near the Ukrainian border in the run up to waging all out years long war on its much smaller neighbour. Oops, sorry, no, you don't call it that, you call it a three day "special military operation".

    /s in case you missed it.

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  • [–] 14 points 10 months ago (11 children)

    CCP never had a claim on Taiwan

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  • [–] 12 points 10 months ago (4 children)

    CCP didn't take it when the current Taiwan gov moved there, they only took the mainland.

    That's literally the definition of how countries split in two

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  • [–] 12 points 10 months ago* (2 children)

    They so not agree on this, stop watching CCP propaganda. CCP is the only one pushing for this in the entire world with some allies like Russia simply backing it up. This is an imperialism move and you know it.

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  • [–] 8 points 10 months ago

    Congratulations you're Mongolian (or Roman or British)

    Do you have any idea how many countries do the same thing yet are considered different countries? Russia insists Ukraine is part of them (for incoherent historical reasons), you have the European east block, plenty of countries named East X versus West X.

    You even mentioned Korea yourself where both insists they're one country but the whole world understands there's 2 separate countries claiming the same territory but each with control of separate subsets of that territory, and they de facto operate as separate countries. Considering the opposing government as illegitimate doesn't negate its existence.

    Your worldview is incoherent.

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  • [–] 11 points 10 months ago (3 children)

    A divided China is a weaker China

    This honestly feels like mental illness. Imagine rapist screaming at the victim "I can't get stronger unless we unite" while threatening to kill her.

    Dude, get over it, Taiwan has moved on, they have their separate lives and don't want anything to do with China, just like Ukraine (who was part of Soviet union) does not want Russia and will likely result in a long and costly war. I too would go guerilla of someone tried to invade my country.

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  • [–] 11 points 10 months ago (11 children)
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  • [–] 14 points 10 months ago (9 children)

    Are you mentally ill or something? That was a defensive exercise and this has nothing to do with race.

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  • [–] 6 points 10 months ago (4 children)
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  • [–] 6 points 10 months ago

    That is completely untrue. Even Russia conducts its exercises mostly professionally and I don't object.

    If you think what China is doing is a defensive exercise, you are so biased that you are unable to see reality. They are encircling sovereign territory and practicing for a land invasion and blockade to subjugate the Taiwanese people and steal their land. I would like to hear your explanation for how https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PLA_Navy_landing_barges are defensive in nature.

    The weapons that Taiwan has purchased is a direct response to Chinese imperialism, aggression, and threats. Taiwan is not threatening Chinese people, but the opposite is not true.

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