▲ 209 ▼ Apparently Poland started shooting down drones that violate their airspace (www.politico.eu) submitted 1 year ago by mapto@feddit.bg to c/ukraine@sopuli.xyz 26 comments fedilink hide all child comments Hopefully this is just the start of a new way to handling these situations. A number of other NATO countries in the area from Finland to Bulgaria could do the same.
[–] resipsaloquitur@lemmy.world 47 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (8 children) Legends. Don’t let Putin push you around permalink fedilink source hideshow 8 child comments replies: [–] mapto@feddit.bg [S] 19 points 1 year ago (3 children) Well, he doesn't push around Turkey anymore... So, it's historic evidence, not legends. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] resipsaloquitur@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago* (2 children) I mean the Polish are legends for not being pushed around. legend /lĕj′ənd/ noun An unverified story handed down from earlier times, especially one popularly believed to be historical. A body or collection of such stories. One that inspires legends or achieves legendary fame. "She is a legend in her own time." Sense #3. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] woelkchen@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago (1 child) They only shot down drones now after years of stern warnings. They also refuse to even think about committing peace keepers to Ukraine, rather opting to be fully encircled by Russia, should Ukraine fall. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] BanMe@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago And they're not invoking article 5 of Nato which makes an attack on 1 an attack on all. Instead, article 4, which is some navel-gazing shit about figuring out if there's a threat. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Mika@piefed.ca 13 points 1 year ago (3 children) They are being pushed around though. 8 drones entered the Polish airspace at the same time. This is an act of aggression against NATO. NATO is being tested. The response is nothingburger. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Binturong@lemmy.ca 5 points 1 year ago (2 children) Actually that's factually incorrect. The clear message is 'we will use force', a nothing burger would be just allowing them to move freely, which is exactly what Russia forces are testing. At most, and this is a LOT of charity to afford them, they are using cheap drone tech to deplete more expensive countermeasures, but regardless just allowing their incursions will ONLY lead to more incursions, a physical response is the only option. This also applies to any Russian negotiations militarily or politically across history, really using 'diplomacy' to create future opportunities when they violate terms on their own schedule. The answer is do not negotiate, or you expose yourself to future violence. Russia has created this reality themselves, regardless of how loudly they declare victimhood. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Mika@piefed.ca 2 points 1 year ago* (1 child) Where is this message? Who will use the force on who? Defending your own country from drones that could've carried lots of explosives isn't an answer, it is a responsibility of the country. Bare minimum. Besides, NATO is not just Poland. What is the response of the Alliance to russian drones invading Poland? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Binturong@lemmy.ca 1 point 1 year ago What are you talking about? The force was used on the drones, which should always be regarded as weaponry since they can be equipped with it easily. The message WAS the destruction, and it's on unambiguous terms the Russians will understand, even if it's not a full deterrent it's still better than complete inaction: Russian propagandists can USE inaction to speculate and assert all kinds of narratives both internally and internationally, so my point stands. As for NATO I'm sure they're watching, and at least for now allowing Poland to handle it domestically as they're well capable of doing, clearly. If Russia sends drones that actually execute a violent attack, then you'll see NATO get more involved, but as far as this incursion goes you're just speculating. This is the OTHER part of why Russia does this, they are not just testing Poland's resolve and readiness but the alliance too; I assure you there is no question here as to what's going on, so you don't have to act so mystified or ominous. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] mapto@feddit.bg [S] 19 points 1 year ago (3 children) Well, he doesn't push around Turkey anymore... So, it's historic evidence, not legends. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] resipsaloquitur@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago* (2 children) I mean the Polish are legends for not being pushed around. legend /lĕj′ənd/ noun An unverified story handed down from earlier times, especially one popularly believed to be historical. A body or collection of such stories. One that inspires legends or achieves legendary fame. "She is a legend in her own time." Sense #3. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] woelkchen@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago (1 child) They only shot down drones now after years of stern warnings. They also refuse to even think about committing peace keepers to Ukraine, rather opting to be fully encircled by Russia, should Ukraine fall. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] BanMe@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago And they're not invoking article 5 of Nato which makes an attack on 1 an attack on all. Instead, article 4, which is some navel-gazing shit about figuring out if there's a threat. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] resipsaloquitur@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago* (2 children) I mean the Polish are legends for not being pushed around. legend /lĕj′ənd/ noun An unverified story handed down from earlier times, especially one popularly believed to be historical. A body or collection of such stories. One that inspires legends or achieves legendary fame. "She is a legend in her own time." Sense #3. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] woelkchen@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago (1 child) They only shot down drones now after years of stern warnings. They also refuse to even think about committing peace keepers to Ukraine, rather opting to be fully encircled by Russia, should Ukraine fall. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] BanMe@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago And they're not invoking article 5 of Nato which makes an attack on 1 an attack on all. Instead, article 4, which is some navel-gazing shit about figuring out if there's a threat. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] woelkchen@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago (1 child) They only shot down drones now after years of stern warnings. They also refuse to even think about committing peace keepers to Ukraine, rather opting to be fully encircled by Russia, should Ukraine fall. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] BanMe@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago And they're not invoking article 5 of Nato which makes an attack on 1 an attack on all. Instead, article 4, which is some navel-gazing shit about figuring out if there's a threat. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] BanMe@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago And they're not invoking article 5 of Nato which makes an attack on 1 an attack on all. Instead, article 4, which is some navel-gazing shit about figuring out if there's a threat. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Mika@piefed.ca 13 points 1 year ago (3 children) They are being pushed around though. 8 drones entered the Polish airspace at the same time. This is an act of aggression against NATO. NATO is being tested. The response is nothingburger. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Binturong@lemmy.ca 5 points 1 year ago (2 children) Actually that's factually incorrect. The clear message is 'we will use force', a nothing burger would be just allowing them to move freely, which is exactly what Russia forces are testing. At most, and this is a LOT of charity to afford them, they are using cheap drone tech to deplete more expensive countermeasures, but regardless just allowing their incursions will ONLY lead to more incursions, a physical response is the only option. This also applies to any Russian negotiations militarily or politically across history, really using 'diplomacy' to create future opportunities when they violate terms on their own schedule. The answer is do not negotiate, or you expose yourself to future violence. Russia has created this reality themselves, regardless of how loudly they declare victimhood. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Mika@piefed.ca 2 points 1 year ago* (1 child) Where is this message? Who will use the force on who? Defending your own country from drones that could've carried lots of explosives isn't an answer, it is a responsibility of the country. Bare minimum. Besides, NATO is not just Poland. What is the response of the Alliance to russian drones invading Poland? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Binturong@lemmy.ca 1 point 1 year ago What are you talking about? The force was used on the drones, which should always be regarded as weaponry since they can be equipped with it easily. The message WAS the destruction, and it's on unambiguous terms the Russians will understand, even if it's not a full deterrent it's still better than complete inaction: Russian propagandists can USE inaction to speculate and assert all kinds of narratives both internally and internationally, so my point stands. As for NATO I'm sure they're watching, and at least for now allowing Poland to handle it domestically as they're well capable of doing, clearly. If Russia sends drones that actually execute a violent attack, then you'll see NATO get more involved, but as far as this incursion goes you're just speculating. This is the OTHER part of why Russia does this, they are not just testing Poland's resolve and readiness but the alliance too; I assure you there is no question here as to what's going on, so you don't have to act so mystified or ominous. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Binturong@lemmy.ca 5 points 1 year ago (2 children) Actually that's factually incorrect. The clear message is 'we will use force', a nothing burger would be just allowing them to move freely, which is exactly what Russia forces are testing. At most, and this is a LOT of charity to afford them, they are using cheap drone tech to deplete more expensive countermeasures, but regardless just allowing their incursions will ONLY lead to more incursions, a physical response is the only option. This also applies to any Russian negotiations militarily or politically across history, really using 'diplomacy' to create future opportunities when they violate terms on their own schedule. The answer is do not negotiate, or you expose yourself to future violence. Russia has created this reality themselves, regardless of how loudly they declare victimhood. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Mika@piefed.ca 2 points 1 year ago* (1 child) Where is this message? Who will use the force on who? Defending your own country from drones that could've carried lots of explosives isn't an answer, it is a responsibility of the country. Bare minimum. Besides, NATO is not just Poland. What is the response of the Alliance to russian drones invading Poland? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Binturong@lemmy.ca 1 point 1 year ago What are you talking about? The force was used on the drones, which should always be regarded as weaponry since they can be equipped with it easily. The message WAS the destruction, and it's on unambiguous terms the Russians will understand, even if it's not a full deterrent it's still better than complete inaction: Russian propagandists can USE inaction to speculate and assert all kinds of narratives both internally and internationally, so my point stands. As for NATO I'm sure they're watching, and at least for now allowing Poland to handle it domestically as they're well capable of doing, clearly. If Russia sends drones that actually execute a violent attack, then you'll see NATO get more involved, but as far as this incursion goes you're just speculating. This is the OTHER part of why Russia does this, they are not just testing Poland's resolve and readiness but the alliance too; I assure you there is no question here as to what's going on, so you don't have to act so mystified or ominous. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Mika@piefed.ca 2 points 1 year ago* (1 child) Where is this message? Who will use the force on who? Defending your own country from drones that could've carried lots of explosives isn't an answer, it is a responsibility of the country. Bare minimum. Besides, NATO is not just Poland. What is the response of the Alliance to russian drones invading Poland? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Binturong@lemmy.ca 1 point 1 year ago What are you talking about? The force was used on the drones, which should always be regarded as weaponry since they can be equipped with it easily. The message WAS the destruction, and it's on unambiguous terms the Russians will understand, even if it's not a full deterrent it's still better than complete inaction: Russian propagandists can USE inaction to speculate and assert all kinds of narratives both internally and internationally, so my point stands. As for NATO I'm sure they're watching, and at least for now allowing Poland to handle it domestically as they're well capable of doing, clearly. If Russia sends drones that actually execute a violent attack, then you'll see NATO get more involved, but as far as this incursion goes you're just speculating. This is the OTHER part of why Russia does this, they are not just testing Poland's resolve and readiness but the alliance too; I assure you there is no question here as to what's going on, so you don't have to act so mystified or ominous. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Binturong@lemmy.ca 1 point 1 year ago What are you talking about? The force was used on the drones, which should always be regarded as weaponry since they can be equipped with it easily. The message WAS the destruction, and it's on unambiguous terms the Russians will understand, even if it's not a full deterrent it's still better than complete inaction: Russian propagandists can USE inaction to speculate and assert all kinds of narratives both internally and internationally, so my point stands. As for NATO I'm sure they're watching, and at least for now allowing Poland to handle it domestically as they're well capable of doing, clearly. If Russia sends drones that actually execute a violent attack, then you'll see NATO get more involved, but as far as this incursion goes you're just speculating. This is the OTHER part of why Russia does this, they are not just testing Poland's resolve and readiness but the alliance too; I assure you there is no question here as to what's going on, so you don't have to act so mystified or ominous. permalink fedilink source parent