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[–] 67 points 1 month ago (55 children)

Trump never cared for religion until he realised he can use it as a tool for oppression

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  • [–] 46 points 1 month ago (53 children)

    Was religion ever intended to fill a different role?

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  • [–] 21 points 1 month ago (14 children)

    It was/is a ruleset made by humans for humans to ensure cooperation within huge groups. Bit outdated nowadays but the concept is continued in form of laws, human rights, social norms etc.

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  • [–] 18 points 1 month ago (7 children)

    It's also commonly used to create a strong sense of "us"/"them", inferiority to the unquestionable elite, superiority and self righteousness over non-believers, and a great way to force your underlings to do your bidding disguised as words from "God", whoever that might be.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 month ago (6 children)

    Sure, but it seems those same structures remain in place today but in a secularized form. Nation-States create this divisive sentiment which the bourgeois classes utilise in order to bid the oppressed against each others. The struggle between the state and the church is secondary to the material struggle between an upper and a lower class.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (5 children)

    The "but" indicates some kind of opposition - is your stance that only one kind of oppression can exist at once, that some oppression is okay if there is worse oppression existing simultaneously or is your stance something else entirely, not properly indicated by your message?

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago* (4 children)

    These are not two distinct oppressions. Religion is part of the superstructure (i.e. the state, the laws, the culture, etc.) which is held up by the class struggle and the socioeconomic dynamics of power. Religion, like the state, is simply the tool and not the cause of oppression.

    In a capitalist society, the superstructural institutions are mobilized to protect capital. Those could and were effectively conquered by the oppressed class at times in recent history, including religion. An example would be liberation theology in Latin America, or the movements of Marxist Muslim scholars in Central and South Asia.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (3 children)

    You do see that gwl wrote "...use it as a tool for oppression", correct?

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago* (2 children)

    I am aware. My replies, however, were addressed to you. I am simply moving the conversation towards a wider scope that doesn't mystify religion and reduce it to something inherently bad or irrational.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (1 child)

    Intriguing, as that scope change was not at all what I managed to gather from your replies. My understanding of your messages were that religion is a tool of oppression used by the bourgeoisie and that multifaceted oppression is used on the daily to keep us from fighting the class war, which you seemingly tried to frame as some opposive thought to mine although we seem to be in agreement?

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago

    religion is a tool of oppression used by the bourgeoisie and that multifaceted oppression is used on the daily to keep us from fighting the class war,

    Yes, and that additionally it can and has been equally a revolutionary tool to mobilize the masses against oppression. And to shun it completely would be reductive.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago*

    I often reflect on the role it filled for mental health before the advent of science, psychology, and neuropsychiatry.

    I was raised in a very opressive sect of protestantism, where I was instructed to pray and meditate. I find it analogus to visualisation and self reflection. I learned silence and meditation, I was put in situations where sitting silent by the hour listening to empty droning speech was my only recourse. My first awareness of the concept of mental illness was from bible stories of those people being healed implying their condition was not inherent to them, they were innocent.

    The act of singing together about our beliefs and feelings has always seemed like a powerful thing that has vanished from our society, except at baseball games.

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  • [–] -1 points 1 month ago* (1 child)

    Human rights wasn't a thing until the Enlightenment, The Bible, Koran, and Tanakh all limit rights, not expand them.

    You're giving credit for human rights to the oppressor. Horrifying.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago* (32 children)

    Look at basically every none-abrahamic faith

    Especially those religions without gods per se, but rather concepts and ideas

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  • [–] 6 points 1 month ago (4 children)

    You'll always find in History a group that will push for the spread of a religion because it allows them to oppress others and take shit for themselves. And slaughter people who say no. Some religions may start as philosophical and social liberation for small groups, but it is still violence that spreads them the most in a larger society. Yes, even the ones about internal peace, as long as others create external riches and influence about it.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (3 children)

    Looks up "Taoist Religious Wars" - 0 results

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  • [–] 5 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    Everything is convenient when you close your eyes for whatever doesn't suite the agenda. Yellow Turban Rebellion didn't happen, or did it not qualify as a war?

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

    Right! "The way of the great peace." Peace for us, step 1: violently overthrow the corrupt ruling class. Not that I'm disagreeing, that's an example of someone preaching peace and finding that it doesn't exist without standing for the people, and protecting them from oppression means killing those that are doing the oppressing (Ed Sheeran in shame), we're just putting that in a book and calling it a religion.

    To be fair, in China through these ~500 years, every current of thought or philosophy was called a religion, and the line between religion, politics, and philosophy, was pretty much nonexistent. If someone had an idea and put it in a book so others can think about it, that was a religion. It's a bit weird for us today to read "legalism is considered a religion? and legalism is... Absolute administrative power, everyone is equal under the rule of law? Sounds familiar... Oh, there you go, the ruler writes whatever he wants and then kills whoever he wants by designating them as enemies. Like those dummy thinkers and book-writers." "all right, fine, let's look at Mohism: egalitarian society and universal love, cool! First paragraph on Wikipedia: paramilitaries-- oh."

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago* (5 children)

    I wanna see your bad faith uncharitable takes on Humanism and FSM, these are hilarious to see how you'll twist anything even slightly religious to look evil

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (4 children)

    FSM is a joke, made for a dude to be able to wear a colander on their passport.

    Humanism as a religion - where do we draw the line on "is a religion"? Is coffee a religion? Is Marxism a religion? Is the color purple a religion?

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (1 child)

    Damn that's the good stuff, I'll have to share this thread with my friend, this is hilarious

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago*

    I find it quite humorous how you try to defend religion by bringing up the truly defining beliefs with up to a staggering 500 practitioners worldwide to support your point. Arguing that "there is nothing to believe in" is a religion sure is something else.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago* (8 children)

    Oh of course, the best religion, Leveyan Satanism

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (7 children)

    Objectifying women was considered oppressive last I heard.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (6 children)

    Leveyan Satanism does that?

    It's atheism, but they formed a "religion" just so that they were able to use it as a form of activism against any religious freedom laws by going "oh, so we're allowed in right?" to show the contradictory nature if they say no

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago* (5 children)

    Men and older women should dress in black robes during rituals, young women should dress sexy to please and arouse the men. Naked woman to be used as an altar when an altar is needed.

    Edit: granted, this is according to the Wikipedia page on LaVeyan Satanism - maybe the spelling difference is of significance?

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago* (4 children)

    It's literally not an actual religion???

    It's a satire of religion.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (3 children)

    I don't know, seems some take it seriously.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    Satanism is a belief that there is no god

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (6 children)

    Hindu eat beef? It's not against the religion to eat it.

    That's a misconception, they just make sure they die with dignity and lived as happy a life as possible.

    Which some sects argue it's impossible if they're not living a wild life in nature, and argue one shouldn't eat them ever (as there's basically no such thing as wild cow anymore.) But there's no ban, it's just seen as immoral.

    Sikh having a warrior thing is funnily enough fuck all to do with war. It's a holdover from ancient times that's just stuck around as part of it.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (2 children)

    Spiritualism, Wicca, Taoism to a degree, Confucianism

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

    An incredibly uncharitable reading of all of them.

    Taoism especially bad. It wants you and the world to become no longer at odds, with two main paths argued for it, you shape the world, or you let the world shape you.

    Wicca it's fully a faith about "customisation is the point" yeah, so it can be basically anything (though sadly a lot just use it as Christianity+)

    Spiritualism is inspired by Native American faiths, and the root of it is "every thing, living or dead, have some sort of essence be it a spirit or a soul or just an amount of energy", and then from that extends the idea that because of it you should treat nature and by extension each other with respect. Rocks have a spirit, trees have a spirit, dogs have a spirit, etc.

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