Feathercrown comments on "You dont Understand, you have to support the lesser evil"

[–] Feathercrown@lemmy.world 0 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (4 children)

LITERALLY no on all three counts. I pointed to specific instances of their policy differences and did not make any of the statements you just claimed I did. You are sitting in the cave arguing against shadows on the wall.

Again, there is no point conversing if you are not capable of responding to reality.

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[–] Tomorrow_Farewell@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 months ago (3 children)

So, you weren't the one who said this?

Different doesn’t mean Biden was good, just that he was so much better than the alternative. ... Deport citizens arrested by ICE to third-world countries with no trial and refuse to bring them back?

Even for the examples I gave where you can say yes, technically the Biden admin did this too

Again, if your prior list, where you say that Buden (and Obama) didn't use ICE and didn't bomb other countries (technically, you were only concerned with ships for some reason) and the like, was not what you meant, you are free to actually mention things that you think are substantial differences between Trump and the preceding genocidaires in chief.

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[–] Feathercrown@lemmy.world 1 point 2 months ago (2 children)

I don't think deporting citizens like that is one of the things you can truthfully say the Biden admin did. I mean, the poster said Biden did it too, but they provided no proof and neither did you. Meanwhile the Trump admin was ordered multiple times to prevent the deportation of citizens earlier this year. That's why I included it in my list; it's an example of a specific thing that the Trump admin has done worse.

(Proof of the Trump admin doing this: The deportation of Rasha Alawieh, despite a valid visa and court orders denying the legality of the deportation. If the Biden admin did anything similar to this this, feel free to mention an example.)

My note about things the Biden admin did too was to cover list items like "corruption" where there is a difference in scale but not in whether it happened at all. For the record, I don't think any of the concrete policy things in my list that the poster said Biden did are actually true, I just didn't feel like arguing against someone delusional. Feel free to provide proof if that's not accurate.

Again, if your prior list, where you say that Buden (and Obama) didn’t use ICE and didn’t bomb other countries (technically, you were only concerned with ships for some reason) and the like, was not what you meant, you are free to actually mention things that you think are substantial differences between Trump and the preceding genocidaires in chief.

It is what I meant, it is a list of concrete differences between the Trump and Biden admins (ask me for a source on any one of those items, I have them!), and me refusing to respond to some dumbass going "nuh uh!!" doesn't mean I suddenly don't believe the things I said and 100% agree with said dumbass.

Also, specifically:

you say that Buden (and Obama) didn’t use ICE and didn’t bomb other countries (technically, you were only concerned with ships for some reason)

In the list I wrote which you LITERALLY WERE QUOTING AND COULD SEE SAID QUOTE FROM WHILE WRITING THIS INCORRECT STATEMENT, I specifically didn't mention things like "used ICE" or "arrested people protesting ice" because both admins did it. I mentioned specifically the things which the Trump admin has done above and beyond the horrible things both parties usually do. Same goes for the ships, the US is always bombing other countries, we aren't usually blowing up random ships and threatening to take over Greenland.

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[–] Tomorrow_Farewell@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 months ago* (1 child)

Currently don't have time to address the entire reply (will do that later), but I do want to address one claim that you made:

I don’t think deporting citizens like that is one of the things you can truthfully say the Biden admin did.

Biden's term, and each of Obama's terms saw greater numbers of deportations that Trump's first term.

At the very least, articles like these that provide such statistics are easily searchable:
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/01/22/us/trump-biden-immigrants-deportations.html

So, it is rather silly that you keep insisting that Trump is somehow different/worse in this regard.

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[–] Feathercrown@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago

Firstly, those deportation statistics are pretty misleading, since they treat preventing border crossings the same as dragging somebody out of their home or office and deporting them. Same issue with return orders vs expulsions vs formal proceedings. This site has a very in-depth direct comparison between the Trump and Biden admin approaches to deportation.

This distinction makes it actually kind of difficult to compare the approaches morally, since I would weight those situations very differently. This isn't to say that a comparison isn't possible, but that a "this number is bigger under Biden's term than Trump's" doesn't really give an accurate view of the situation.

Secondly, my point was about deporting citizens, or if you'll allow me to extend that, really anyone who is here with the full approval of our legal system. Biden's deportation policy may or may not be more moral than Trump's, given the above details, but it is without doubt at least more legally supported. Once you set the precedent that you can remove someone who has done nothing wrong even by legal standards, like Trump has, the concepts of fairness and justice are beyond repair, and you have reached tyranny.

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