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[–] 75 points 3 months ago (64 children)

Gal Gadot is the reason I understood how people can fall in love with terrible people

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  • [–] 13 points 3 months ago (63 children)

    Why is she terrible? I could Google, but make it well known?

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  • [–] 99 points 3 months ago (22 children)

    Blind support of Israel, served in the IDF.

    I'm sure there's more, but I never liked any movie she was in so never bothered to learn more.

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  • [–] 65 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    Don't forget she lied that her family is 8th generation Israeli and that she's indigenous to the land. Outrageous lie to state especially since it's public that all her grandparents are foreign from Palestine also.

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  • [–] 7 points 3 months ago (17 children)

    served in the idf

    Not that this affects your conclusion, she was a conscript, like every Israeli.

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  • [–] 35 points 3 months ago (13 children)

    You can choose to sit in Jail instead, lots of Israeli youth do. you always have a choice not to join a genocidal army.

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  • [+] -12 points 3 months ago (12 children)

    I compare it to nazi Germany. I don't really condemn Germans who served in the armed forces rather than be punished for draft evasion. There were soldiers who just fought as they were told to and without doing anything clearly immoral or illegal - not all we're out there murdering Jews or civilians, or executing prisoners, or whatever. Same with Israelis. It takes a lot of courage to go to prison by active choice, and I don't think it's reasonable to condemn people for not having that courage unless the alternative was themselves taking part in war crimes.

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  • [–] 15 points 3 months ago (9 children)

    "Just following orders" does not hold up in court today nor did it hold up in the Nuremberg trials.

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  • [–] -2 points 3 months ago (8 children)

    That is a quote about clearly illegal orders, which I specifically treated differently in my comment.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago (7 children)

    There were soldiers who just fought as they were told to and without doing anything clearly immoral or illegal

    Please tell me which of the nazi's orders were moral.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago (6 children)
    • "Go clean out the toilets"

    • "Dig a hole over there"

    • "Listen on this frequency and write down what you hear"

    etc.

    But for actual action, there is also an over-simplification of the moral that, "just following orders" is not a defence: it has only ever been applied to clear violations, like crimes against humanity. Nobody is looking to prosecute individual Russian front-line soldiers for carrying out Putin's orders to advance in the Donbas, even though ultimately those orders are illegal and immoral, because they are in aid of carrying out a war of aggression.

    I believe this is because of exactly the feeling that I have, that it doesn't make sense to make individual soldiers responsible for working out that their orders are wrong except in the most obvious circumstances. Any grunt with a conscience can understand that executing civilians, or bombing apartment buildings, should never happen. Expecting them to break through the propaganda that is telling them that the war they are fighting is a just war is stupid, unrealistic and does not achieve anything. Ordinary Russians who keep fighting and dying in Ukraine aren't doing it because of some unique moral failing that the rest of us upstanding human beings don't have. Same with ordinary Germans in the Wehrmacht. But some Russians, and some Germans, and some Israelis, went/go beyond all that, and actively take part in atrocities. That's the dividing line.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago (3 children)

    "Go and move everyone out of that building there, don't let anyone back in"

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2026/2/17/mapping-forced-displacements-and-settler-attacks-by-israel-in-the-west-bank

    "Hand out these leaflets telling them that the area is now off limits"

    https://globalnews.ca/video/11399684/israeli-military-drops-flyers-orders-palestinians-to-evacuate-gaza-strip-ahead-of-new-offensive/

    https://x.com/MosabAbuToha/status/1902527687014424782

    "Build a berm there"

    https://apnews.com/article/israel-gaza-yellow-line-barrier-ceasefire-941ed80f6d4398ce88916f6b08753dd8

    "Drive this bulldozer and clear the rubble so we can get through"

    https://www.anewpolicy.org/news/d9-armoured-bulldozers-in-the-idf

    "Wire up this camera to the checkpoint network so our system can check everyone is safe"

    https://lieber.westpoint.edu/israels-use-ai-dss-facial-recognition-technology-erosion-civilian-protection-gaza/

    See, I can make things sound entirely legal and moral, too. Doesnt make them moral actions.

    "exactly the feeling that I have, that it doesn’t make sense to make individual soldiers responsible for working out that their orders are wrong except in the most obvious circumstances. "

    Oh no these poor soldiers having to work out if they should or should not kick families out of their ancestral homes so that israeli settlers can build an apartment complex. Those poor innocent soldiers just doing their job and shooting pregnant women./s

    https://www.reuters.com/article/economy/israel-army-bans-t-shirts-mocking-attacks-on-palestinians-idUSL1570182/ <- this was from 2009

    Anyone with eyes and a brain can tell that what they're doing isn't in any way shape or form a moral action, and has not been for DECADES.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    Yeah, a bunch of those orders would, if carried out, not result in conscripts being convicted by a war crimes tribunal. Maybe some would, idk, but not all, from what I've read.

    I think you see the blatant immorality of the effect of Israel's actions and want to blame everyone for it that you can. But that's an emotional response, not a rational one. There are those responsible who should be prosecuted, but as the individual gets further away from an architect of that effect, that responsibility necessarily diminishes. If cleaning the toilets is immoral, what about an IDF soldier's partner who cooks for them when they're on leave? What about someone who buys an Israeli export? What about someone who fails to go on an anti-genocide march? Surely you'd want all those people to do what they can, but is there a sharp dividing line in criminal responsibility before an international court in there? Because surely you don't think any of those are guilty of war crimes like those "just following orders" were, even if you do want them to act differently.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago (1 child)

    Nice moving of the goalposts, but in two of your examples, the IDF soldier and their partner- both are complicit in supporting the genocidal settler state in their actions, and both are living off land stolen from the people that lived there before they were criminally displaced.

    I dont disagree that the people responsible should be punished, that goes without saying, but suggesting that people who unknowingly purchase produce (not including those actively supporting the genocide by providing arms and equipment, who are responsible and should be punished accordingly) and the ones who aren't at the protests hold far less sway than the people actively perpetrating war crimes, and suggestion to the otherwise is willfully ignorant of both how international law works and intentionally misinterpreting my point.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago

    You don't seem to see how there is a scale of responsibility here.

    Remember the examples of cleaning toilets and monitoring the radio? The goalposts we started with were "she's terrible because she didn't dodge the draft" (yes, she has also made statements supporting Israel, but I'm focusing on this part because that's the part I disagree with)

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  • [–] 9 points 3 months ago

    While I'd say conscripts are easier to forgive than volunteer forces, they are still culpable. They offsetting the suffering they'd endure in prison onto other people, with which their respective fascistic armed forces are targeting. I'm more understanding of their position but they are still guilty.

    Also, while the individual soldier may have themselves not conducted any crimes, by serving in a fascist military, you are still aiding them in committing crimes. By providing gains for that military through your service, it gives the force more opportunity and power to commit atrocities.

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  • [–] -5 points 3 months ago

    This is so beside the point but I was thinking about how conscription in the US wouldn't work. A huge majority of people would either be unfit or just say no and there would be so many young people in jail the economy would grind to a halt. I love that for us

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  • [–] 34 points 3 months ago (31 children)

    Do you deny the genocide in Palestine?

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  • [–] 31 points 3 months ago (9 children)

    This demographic is not normal. The amount of children is staggering.

    Also, genocide does not mean complete eradication. I assume you agree that the nazis committed a genocide when they killed millions of jews? They did not eradicate them.

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  • [–] 26 points 3 months ago (7 children)

    Their demographics show an insane amount of children. 44% is between 0-14 years. This "war" is basically a mass murdering of children.

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  • [–] 26 points 3 months ago

    I thought the claim of a growing population sounded implausible, so I wanted to dig a bit into it.

    The growth argument seems to originally stem from future estimates from CIA World Factbook. Now no longer available. The claim of 2,02% was the basis of a social media post that went viral, and has been debunked a couple of places I found

    It seems hard to find actual numbers or current estimates made by reliable sources for any given year, which is not surprising when:

    • 1.47 million of about 2.17 million Gazans are registered as refugees (2024).

    • West Bank is 3.19 million with 0.91 million registered refugees (2024)

    • 70% of Gaza is under Israeli occupation

    • Vast areas, hospitals, schools, infrastructure etc. are destroyed

    I find it hard to believe that the population has grown. 1% of the Palestinian population is about 55 000. The usual growth is 2-3% IIRC. So about 110 000 yearly. Which can very roughly translate to 220-300 000 over 2 or 330-400 000 over 3 years.

    The direct death toll is at least 81 000. Directly wounded more than 170 000. Indirect deaths is something else entirely. Estimated to many times the direct death toll. Under rubble, famine, disease etc.

    If death toll is higher than normal population increase for the period. That means one of the following:

    1. Palestinians got more or the same amount of offspring. Is that likely when half the population is living as refugees?
    2. The population declined.

    I want to add something at the end, famines are a lot more destructive than one might assume. It does generational harm due to epigenetics.

    I don't have more time to spend on this unfortunately, it is mentally taxing, and I don't have the energy to do this justice and research it properly. So please excuse any inaccuracies.

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  • [–] 13 points 3 months ago (4 children)
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  • [–] 16 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (2 children)

    refuses to acknowledge that they're using pregenocide information as justification to deny a genocide

    "I'm very smart, you stupid"

    Shut the fuck up, you Nazi filth.

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  • [–] 9 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

    Apparently you can't use words to address the point someone made, due to a lack of reading comprehension.

    Let's try again, do you recognize that the Palestinian population is not in fact increasing since the genocide started and that you shouldn't use figures obtained before the action that everyone is complaining about started as justifications for why that action isn't actually happening?

    If you don't understand, please explain what it is about linear time you have a problem with.

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  • [–] 30 points 3 months ago (17 children)

    I hope you die an early and painful death like so many people you have ignored.

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  • [–] 16 points 3 months ago* (15 children)

    Yes, I’m very intentionally nasty to monsters who endorse the bombing of schools and hospitals.

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  • [–] 13 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (13 children)

    That never happened and was disproved almost as soon as that claim was made.

    Dude, just admit you want to kill them and take their lands. You'll feel better not holding it in.

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  • [–] 12 points 3 months ago (7 children)
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  • [–] 8 points 3 months ago* (3 children)

    Apparently reading comprehension isn't part of the Nazi curriculum.

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  • [+] -12 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (2 children)

    I could Google

    We're not your secretaries so yeah do that.

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