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So if I am understanding this correctly, Steam Proton games such as Marvel Rivals and Dead By Daylight CAN spy on you? (feddit.online)
submitted 3 months ago by to c/privacy@programming.dev
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EDIT: We have at least one user claiming that EAC and BattlEye can NOT see what programs are running on your computer via proton on Linux.

EDIT 2: According to brucethemoose@lemmy.world with comment https://lemmy.world/comment/24738141

"Yes and no.

If you run task manager or something in Proton? It just shows Proton processes:
ImagePlaceholder

But all linux process, and tons of information about them, are readable in the /proc directory. They’re just files, accessible to the program.

Try ls /proc yourself.

There’s nothing stopping anti cheat from checking that, if it’s configured to do it.

Which is pretty dang convincing to me.

If I have a good understanding, the Symlinks that Proton uses allow the games to view nearly your entire drive and see what software is running? Because Proton is explicitly NOT a virtual machine and merely a translation layer for Windows applications to run on Linux?

The reason I like to ask is because this is the general consensus, that Proton applications are not secure, but when searching online it doesn't explicitly state anywhere if the games with EAC or BattlEye are capable of spying on Linux users. So I'm looking for confirmation on this.

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[–] 6 points 3 months ago (10 children)

Why would you make this a proton/wine convo when you are clearly unhappy with the practices used by the companies making the software. This isn't about the compatibility layer you're using, reframe your thinking. If you ran malware, Proton would say "yeah sure bud let me get that for you" and would run that shit. Proton isn't an antivirus or a security tool.

Also, privacy and security are completely different. Privacy is the right to not be observed, think anonymity. Security is the control of access, think authentication and authorisation. If you're attempting to run software on your user account, you've authorised it to run as you. Therefore every action you do that doesn't require a password is possible, if improbable. But yeah, they can see other open software, it can view your files and it can see your hardware. It needs to. It's a compatibility layer. It's still just software you ran on your machine.

I repeat, if you run spyware, you get spyware. You've just given it the tools to work cross platform.

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  • [–] [S] 2 points 3 months ago (9 children)

    I repeat, if you run spyware, you get spyware. You’ve just given it the tools to work cross platform.

    Well that's conflicting because at least one other user said that the spyware doesn't function well enough to work as intended in Proton.

    To answer your question, Valve and Riot who provide these games made this a Proton discussion when they got these games running in Proton, and by discussing what is and isn't possible in the current scope we can create a more informed community who can make their own decisions.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago (3 children)

    Well that’s conflicting because at least one other user said that the spyware doesn’t function well enough to work as intended in Proton.

    It absolutely can.

    There are real instances where I could’ve run Windows infostealer malware via WINE that would get my stuff.

    What you’re hoping is for it to malfunction on accident, basically. That might happen. But hope is not security.

    If you’re worried, you can fence off file access to programs in Linux.

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  • [–] [S] 0 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    The intended use of these specific anti-cheats is to be able to see active processes in real time. I'm seeing users claim both ways that they either can or cannot with no consensus.

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  • [–] 6 points 3 months ago* (1 child)

    Yes and no.

    If you run task manager or something in Proton? It just shows Proton processes:

    But all linux process, and tons of information about them, are readable in the /proc directory. They're just files, accessible to the program.

    Try ls /proc yourself.

    There's nothing stopping anti cheat from checking that, if it's configured to do it.

    ...Are any actually checking /proc?

    Shrug.

    I wouldn't be surprised, though. Anticheat devs are aware of linux cheating software.

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  • [–] -2 points 3 months ago (4 children)

    Are you going to have a go at C++ then for compiling the game in the first place? Ooo let's have a yell at assembly for running the game too. Maybe Intel or AMD could cop some shit for performing the instructions, Nvidia as well just to be sure.

    I'm not the other person, if it's conflicting then idk what to tell you. I work in security, but I'm not the biggest expert on proton. I know enough to understand it's not an emulator, it's a compatibility layer, and that means it runs the code that was written to the best of it's ability, on your hardware. Happens to run as you. You're having a go at the environment, i.e. the packages and software that makes the game run, for the actions you and the game developers made. Don't run spyware if you don't like spyware, or run it elsewhere.

    Can the games scan your drive where your user can navigate? Yes, they have to. Can they see other programs that are running? Yes, they have to. Can they read, edit and make changes? Yes, they have to. Can they capture input in other software? Not unless you're on Xorg, then probably. Can they make web requests and send your data outside the machine? Yes, obviously they have to.

    Congrats, it's spyware if it wants to be.

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  • [–] [S] -1 points 3 months ago (3 children)

    That's really interesting and I'd love to see you debate the other users saying that they can't do the things that you're claiming they can do. Please inform me once that starts so I can bookmark the comments.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago (2 children)

    No one is claiming that...

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  • [–] [S] -1 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    Yeah, actually, user acorntickler@sh.itjust.works said:

    The reason that these games request kernel level access in windows is to see what programs are running currently. Does root access not give them the same capability on Linux?

    Correct. The difference is that they are not asking for root privileges on Linux.

    https://sh.itjust.works/comment/26345063

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  • [–] 4 points 3 months ago

    That's not what I meant. The anti-cheat software with elevated privileges on Windows does not only see what software you are running, but also what they are doing. They inspect the used memory of the game and other running programs in order to detect cheating vectors like memory injection.

    As you have already seen in this comment, you don't need elevated privileges for listing running processes. But you need it for further inspection.

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