sugar_in_your_tea comments on PirateSoftware Leaves OffBrand Games as Stop Killing Games Reaches Goal

[–] sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 1 point 1 year ago (4 children)

I haven't followed him at all, in fact, I've only watched a few videos by him over the last week or so due to this controversy, and read a couple articles about it. I found this wiki page about him, which claims his career has been:

worked as a freelance security researcher and developer (I'm guessing basic pen tests, given his likely experience at the time)
started at Blizzard in QA, left after 6 years as a pen tester
created indie studio w/ friends, and so far has completed one game, has one as "early access" (for 7 years!!), and one in progress
streams a lot

I don't know what claims he has made in the past, but working at a major studio for several years in multiple capacities would certainly give him some insight that most outside the industry don't have. He has also likely learned some game dev in his stint as an indie developer, though I don't think that's particularly relevant to the claims he has made about SKG.

Is that history inaccurate?

From what I've read, the main complaints are:

take on SKG - people don't think he has the credentials necessary to make the claims he has (for the record, Ross Scott also doesn't have any relevant credentials)
something about WoW? Sounds like a misunderstanding that he cleared w/ his team (I watched a clip of the original stream)
people claiming, without evidence, that he's lying about his credentials

Here's my opinion:

agree w/ take on Godot
disagree w/ take on SKG, though I do understand that the petition is a bit vague in some areas, but that's for legal reasons (i.e. you can't force a studio to release their server code)
he's a bit abrasive, hence why I haven't been able to actually finish any of his videos; had I found him months earlier, I would've been turned off purely based on his style

I don't think he deserves the flak he's getting, I do think he made some serious mistakes on the SKG opinion, and he should've been better at reading the room and actually had Ross on to discuss the initiative and air his concerns.

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[–] Raxiel@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (3 children)

I didn't really follow him, but the YouTube algorithm filled my feed with his shorts and I inevitably formed an opinion based off those. I don't watch twitch.

When I first saw the negative coverage about him with the wow thing, I thought it was just people being petty and the usual trolling

Not to the extent I'd post defensive comments, but I was on his side. I did start to wonder if he was full of it, the coverage following ross' rebuttal of his arguments confirmed it for me.

I'm not trying to convince you if he's a bad guy or not, just explain why a lot of people, including me are annoyed at him and creating a market for content pointing out his lies.

I don't want to go in depth on his background, that wikka is broadly correct although his first job was in QA at blizzard due to nepotism (source: Thor himself on stream) he left and I don't recall whether the security researcher job followed immediately but he did a stint of that where he did pen testing via social engineering (source his LinkedIn) and returned to Blizzard to work in the security department, not nepotism this time (according to him) although he had worked there before and his Dad still did which wouldn't have hurt. Then he worked at Amazon as a tester.

As for his credentials and their relevance to his take on SKG, the big difference is that Ross doesn't claim to be an expert, he's made it clear his opinion is the way the industry treats eol products is anti-consumer, that the law isn't clear on whether that's allowed, and that if you agree, you can join the campaign. Jason on the other hand is relying on his credentials to back up his arguments and why people should listen to him.
The wow thing, as I understand it, mistakes were made by several people including him, not that big of a deal, except he refused to admit any wrongdoing and banned anyone who disagreed which rubbed people up the wrong way. It might have caused less of a stir if he didn't flex on others about how good he is.

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[–] sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)

Jason on the other hand is relying on his credentials to back up his arguments and why people should listen to him.

Perhaps. But he also has some relevant credentials, since he has worked with a big AAA studio, worked w/ an indie publisher, and has been working on games w/ a team.

It's a bit odd IMO for him to go out of his way to defend live-service games since that rarely describes indies, but I wish he'd clarify his point there in the context of a revised understanding of the petition. It wouldn't sway my opinion, but perhaps it could sway others who are on the fence about the petition.

It might have caused less of a stir if he didn’t flex on others about how good he is.

Sure, but isn't that kind of what streamers do? If you're not wanting to watch someone flex on others, then perhaps watching a popular streamer isn't the best move.

I think the main issue is that he didn't step to self-correct. When you have a controversial take (and I'm sure he was aware his take was controversial), you need to be extra careful you have accurate facts. When he got a bunch of pushback, he should've reached out to Ross to have him on to talk about the petition, which would both provide a chance to elucidate the facts, as well as give viewers more context on the issues he has with it. That didn't happen, and I think that's the main issue here.

That said, I think the response to Jason/Thor was way too aggressive. Yeah, he has a bad take, but I saw some review-bombing on his own games, which doesn't really help things (I didn't even know he made games until I was trying to find out why so many people cared).

Anyway, I'm happy to continue largely ignoring him, because he doesn't produce content that's interesting to me.

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[–] Raxiel@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

But that's the point people are making, that his credentials actually aren't relevant, at least not to the extent he's an expert. He worked at Blizzard, but not as a developer, it's been likened to someone who worked in the billing department at a hospital weighing in on medical care.
He does have experience as a dev on Heartbound, but that's not AAA, and he seems to have got bored of that, preferring the ego boost of being a streamer.
He's still entitled to an opinion of course, but it shouldn't carry the weight it had been given.

His support for life services makes sense when you find out the game publisher he (allegedly) founded and the one he recently resigned from, was publishing live service games.

He claims he was review bombed, others have checked the steam stats and it didn't support his claim.

It seems like you want to give him the benefit of the doubt, and TBH that's fair enough, especially if you're just going to ignore him. Like I said, I think a lot of people who are mad at him were following him, and feel like they were taken for chumps.

If you did decide to dig into it though (and I'm not recommending it), there are some content creators bringing receipts, and there is a definite pattern of behaviour.

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[–] sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 1 point 1 year ago

He worked at Blizzard, but not as a developer, it’s been likened to someone who worked in the billing department at a hospital weighing in on medical care.

A QA would probably be more involved, since they would be testing the game or something related to the game. How relevant his experience was depends on what he worked on and who he had access to talk to. I learned a lot about electrical engineering while working as a software engineer at a company that built custom antennas because I talked to the EEs a lot. I wouldn't be surprised if he had a similar experience at Blizzard.

preferring the ego boost of being a streamer

And probably the money. With a big enough audience, it pays reasonably well. I doubt his games are selling well enough to live off of.

He claims he was review bombed

He claims the other publisher was review bombed, I'm talking about his studio's games, which do seem to be review bombed (overwhelmingly negative for recent reviews, positive all time).

I think a lot of people who are mad at him were following him

Perhaps. But a lot of people knee-jerk join the bandwagon as well. Look at everyone jumping on the Godot hate train. I refuse to form a negative opinion without being fully informed, because the cult of public opinion can be absolutely reactionary.

So I err on the side of giving people the benefit of the doubt.

And yeah, content creators jumping on the bandwagon isn't my cup of tea, since they have a motivation to exaggerate to get views. I want a pretty unbiased, fair take, not a rage bait take, and that's more likely to be found on a forum like this instead of on YouTube. Hence why I'm asking.

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