shawn1122 comments on Carbon emissions per capita of world’s largest economies (2024)

[–] shawn1122@sh.itjust.works 1 point 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (4 children)

Even this type of data is overly decontextualized without considering cumulative (not annual) emissions since the industrial revolution (globally), proportion of corporate contribution and off shoring. Per capita is important too.

With regard to developing nations, emissions will go up as people get pulled out of poverty and have lifestyles more like people in developed nations. It's hard to ask them not to pursue that or to delay it without coming across as hypocritical. Especially since developed nations are responsible for 50% of cumulative emissions, historically, despite being 20% of the global population (and have a higher quality of life so show for it).

Now with the US/Israel's war in Iran more nations in Asia will be burning coal due to oil supply constraints. It's easy to show a graph blaming those nations for resorting to that but several are already rationing gasoline (Americans would lose their minds lol) and the people are absolutely struggling for it.

This is the type of decontextualization that Western nations employ to pressure nations in Africa, Latin America, and Asia and its often is not received well, understandably.

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[–] Eyekaytee@aussie.zone 1 point 7 months ago (3 children)

there were no solar panels during the industrial revolution, i care about what’s being emitted today, what is the point of us reducing our emissions for china and india ro simply slurp up all the savings and then some?

people in the west worried about climate change while somehow ignoring the elephant in the room

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[–] shawn1122@sh.itjust.works 0 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (2 children)

Sure that's one way to look at it but it's short sighted in my view. From the other perspective it comes across as the West saying they could pollute as much as they wanted to in order give their people a better life and now everyone else has to operate under strict constraints or get a finger wagging from the largest contributers to CO2 emissions in human history. That's a lot of hypocrisy.

You're right that solar panels do exist now. It should be noted that China has done more with renewables and getting ICE vehicles off the road than any Western country, many of which seem to be stuck in old habits. Nations like India and China are developing on a massive scale, actively integrating renewables into their expanding grids as they pull hundreds of millions out of poverty.

The average person in India and China contributes substantially less to global emissions than the average Westerner. So as their emissions increase, rather than seeing it as them cancelling out your efforts, you should be flattered that they want to live with the luxuries and privileges youve had for some time now. They are in no way less worthy of that.

Perhaps Western nations should be made to contribute less per capita than developing nations, as a way to offset their historically disproportionate contribution.

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[–] Eyekaytee@aussie.zone 1 point 7 months ago (1 child)

That’s a lot of hypocrisy.

Definitely not, if you look at all the emissions charts they show all western countries are in a downward trend

It should be noted that China has done more with renewables and getting ICE vehicles off the road than any Western country

That's not true Norway has a new car 98%+ EV sales rate

If you want to go by per capita then there's loads that have done more:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_by_country

😁

The average person in India and China contributes substantially less to global emissions than the average Westerner

And rightly so! There is a lot more of them! They have a greater responsibility to reduce their emissions, just like we do compared to the coco's islands

As said they're doing great on the renewables front, they are also doing extremely bad on the co2 output front

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[–] shawn1122@sh.itjust.works 2 points 7 months ago*

But therein lies the hipocrisy. The nations that have had historically excessive CO2 emissions (especially per capita) should not be telling nations that emit significantly less per person what to do.

50% of cumulative emissions from 20% of global population. That's the data point that captures the reality of the situation we're in. Looking at the past 20 years or recent trends only provides a myopic perspective in my view.

Don't get me wrong, these nations have achieved an incredible quality of life for their people through this excess but they shouldn't be suprised when other countries work towards the same for their people, which will involve expanding utilization of conventional energy in the short term. You or I are not more worthy than a person in China, India or Africa of having a good quality of life.

Props to Norway to for the milestone but they do not manufacture EVs, they import them, and third are Teslas. Politics aside, Chinese EVs are innovating at a pace far beyond anything Tesla has been able to muster in the past 5 years. Innovation is important as it drives adoption.

I'm glad that the nations that have historically contributed the most to climate change are acting to offset that excess. I'm also very impressed with nations that are both expanding their grids and increasing proportion of renewable utilization simultaneously. Ultimately we all share this planet and what's happened in the past is what it is. We didn't know then what we know now. I think we both want to see overall emissions decrease and here's hoping that we see more global collaboration towards that.

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