hperrin comments on LTT does another Linux Challenge

LTT does another Linux Challenge (www.youtube.com)

submitted 8 months ago by cm0002@libretechni.ca to c/linux@programming.dev

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[–] hperrin@lemmy.ca 11 points 8 months ago (14 children)

Ok, fair enough. Pop OS, once again, should be ashamed. It’s pretty egregious that they don’t make it very clear that this is beta (maybe even alpha) quality software.

So, as a normal person, when an OS isn’t working and has a bunch of bugs, wouldn’t the correct response be to try another OS? Especially when your friends aren’t having the issues you’re having. He’s tried Pop twice now, and both times, the clowntown devs have caused him headaches. Maybe try another OS and stop shitting on Linux as a whole because of Pop OS.

The problem with Linus is that he views himself as an expert in computers when really he’s just decent at Windows. He knows basically nothing about anything but DOS derived OSes. Give him something POSIX and he’s completely lost. He acts worse than a newbie, because a newbie at least knows that they know nothing.

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[–] stephen01king@piefed.zip 7 points 8 months ago (12 children)

Yes, I think the main problem was System 76 shipping a beta DE with an LTS release, which is why I'm surprised most people focused on shitting on Linus for the problem he is having.

Given that most users are still on Windows, you can tell just how numb most people are to bs coming from their OS, so it makes sense for an average user to try out a popular distro a 2nd time after it didn't work out the first time. Also, this is the 2nd time he's trying it, so calling it his fault for not trying another distro after failing twice is kinda misplaced, isn't it? If he's still on Pop!_OS in the next video, then your criticism would make sense. He's also not shitting on Linux, only showing the problems he encountered. If he was trying to shit on Linux, the perspective of the other two presenters wouldn't be so positive.

Linus definitely plays up the character of someone who knows enough to be dangerous. That's part of the entertainment of his channel. Expecting him to only do things competently is basically asking him to abandon the style of his current content. It's like expecting a serious car review from Top Gear. You're never gonna get it and you shouldn't be expecting it.

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[–] hperrin@lemmy.ca 3 points 8 months ago* (11 children)

He is shitting on Linux. Look at the thumbnail and title of the video. He’s pushing the narrative that Linux is difficult. Linux isn’t particularly difficult, it’s just different than Windows. If you have no knowledge of either, they’d both be difficult to use. I know for me, using Windows is such a pain in the ass, cause everything is so different than Linux, and I’ve been using Linux for 18 years. But I’m not going to say Windows is difficult just because I’m unfamiliar with it.

It’s way easier to do a lot of things in Linux than Windows, and to his credit, he does touch on this for a few seconds in his video. But he spends so much time focusing on the bugs in the beta quality software that no other distro uses that yet again, he’s going to be pushing people away from Linux as a whole because he doesn’t know what he’s doing.

He needs to realize that he’s not “cursed”, he’s just nowhere near the computer expert that he thinks he is. Again, he’s just a fool.

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[–] stephen01king@piefed.zip 2 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (10 children)

You mean the beta piece of software that is shipped in an LTS release that nobody who don't follow Linux news would know is a beta software? And you're blaming the people who don't know instead of the people who should know better than to do that?

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[–] hperrin@lemmy.ca 1 point 8 months ago (9 children)

I’m blaming someone who should have enough expertise to understand that that can happen and how to avoid it. I mean Luke literally brought it up himself as a criticism of Linus’ approach for that video in the WAN Show the other day.

You’re acting like Linus is just some nobody who has zero responsibility when he’s talking about Linux. That’s not true. For better or for worse, people will listen to his opinions and takes on things. If those takes are grossly uninformed, that’s his fault, and it’s irresponsible of him as an influencer. If he can’t be bothered to do more than an hour of research before spouting off his nonsense opinions, then he just shouldn’t be talking about Linux. Let someone more competent from his team do it.

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[–] stephen01king@piefed.zip 2 points 8 months ago* (8 children)

I can tell you didn't watch the video properly, since he already said he doing it from an approach of someone new to Linux, as he always does whenever these challenges occur. Saying someone shouldn't use Linux if they didn't do an hour of research into it is painfully elitist. I'm sure many people like to deal with gatekeepers that judge people based on how much time they have to spend on researching their OS.

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[–] hperrin@lemmy.ca 1 point 8 months ago (7 children)

Saying someone shouldn’t use Linux if they didn’t do an hour of research into it is painfully elitist.

I agree. It’s a good thing I didn’t say that.

The right approach to reviewing a new kind of operating system is not to do one hour of research then complain to millions of people that the system isn’t doing what you’re trying to make it do.

IMHO, that is the worst kind of reviewer, one who just doesn’t know enough about the product or bother to research it enough to give an accurate review. Imagine if MKBHD reviewed Android by only taking a look at a Boost Mobile phone.

And it’s not gatekeeping to criticize someone for spreading misinformation about Linux. I’m perfectly happy with him using Linux. He can use it all he wants. I’ll never try to stop him. But when he makes these videos, he’s just being an idiot and an asshole. If he titled his video, “Giving PopOS One More Chance”, I’d be less disgusted by his behavior. Thank god for the other two for actually being the voice of reason.

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[–] stephen01king@piefed.zip 2 points 8 months ago (6 children)

The right approach to reviewing a new kind of operating system

Luckily, they never used the word review to refer to the purpose of the video, so your criticism is already out-of-place.

IMHO, that is the worst kind of reviewer

Again, their job was not as a reviewer, but as a tester for Linux in their specific usecase. In Linus's case, he added that he was doing it like an average user.

And it’s not gatekeeping to criticize someone for spreading misinformation about Linux.

What misinformation? Did Pop!_OS not ship a beta software with their LTS release that caused all the problems that Linus faced? Did his google search not suggest Pop!_OS as a distro? Did ChatGPT not suggest Pop!_OS as a distro? Show me where the misinformation was in the video?

I’m perfectly happy with him using Linux.

Yes, you're just unhappy other people are using it and finding problems.

Thank god for the other two for actually being the voice of reason.

Thank god the other two didn't find many problems? If they found a lot of problems, are they also now spreading misinformation?

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[–] hperrin@lemmy.ca 1 point 8 months ago (5 children)

Do you honestly think this video was not a review of Linux? Just because they call it a challenge doesn’t mean it’s not a review. But fine, we'll call them testers. IMHO, that is the worst kind of tester.

Multiple times while he’s talking about his experience, he’s attributing bugs in Cosmic to everything except Cosmic. Cosmic’s compositor, especially, has a bunch of bugs, and he’s hitting them, while blaming them on Valve and Linux. He doesn’t understand where the bugs are coming from, which, sure, is a bit of an excuse, but, he’s still spreading misinformation. And the best you can say is, well, he’s only spreading misinformation because he’s ignorant. But how does he not realize that it’s his distro when the other guys never see those bugs??

The fact that you didn’t realize that what he was saying was untrue kind of proves my point. He’s spreading misinformation.

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[–] stephen01king@piefed.zip 2 points 8 months ago (4 children)

he’s attributing bugs in Cosmic to everything except Cosmic. Cosmic’s compositor, especially, has a bunch of bugs, and he’s hitting them, while blaming them on Valve and Linux.

Did he? All I see is him showing the bugs he is experiencing after following a pretty normal way an average person would do to select and install a Linux distro. Given that an average computer user would not know that Cosmic DE is a beta software, there would be no way they would attribute any bugs to it specifically.

And the best you can say is, well, he’s only spreading misinformation because he’s ignorant. But how does he not realize that it’s his distro when the other guys never see those bugs??

The only thing he specifically blamed for the problems he's encountering is his own curse, which shows he doesn't think this is a normal experience of using Linux. But, at the end of the day, he is neither using a niche distro nor is he using problematic hardware like an Nvidia card, so his experience is just as valid as any to be considered a Linux experience.

Also, this is a live reaction, so obviously there is no time to compare and contrast his experience with the other two and do proper troubleshooting. That should be in later videos. Whether the solution he chose is to change distro or not is something people have to see and not immediately assume and judge him for. The latter is simply jumping the gun based on feelings and not facts.

The fact that you didn’t realize that what he was saying was untrue kind of proves my point. He’s spreading misinformation.

Its only a misinformation if you assume he is blaming Linux and Valve, but I only see it as showing in what way the experience can still be broken by an average non-technical user. It's not like he's doing anything particularly egregious to cause the issues, anyway. Selecting a non-niche distro and choosing an LTS release is pretty reasonable for anyone that isn't following Linux closely.

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[–] hperrin@lemmy.ca 1 point 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (3 children)

You should watch that part of the video again, closely. Yes, he attributed his issues to Valve and Linux, and there was never any correction. He probably doesn’t even know what a compositor is.

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[–] stephen01king@piefed.zip 1 point 8 months ago (2 children)

Well, as it turns put, the L4D issue is caused by Valve and not the Cosmic Desktop, so he isn't wrong.

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[–] hperrin@lemmy.ca 1 point 8 months ago (1 child)

But the duplicate Steam windows one is cause by Cosmic. And I believe there were some other issues he called out that were issues in the game generally, not the game on Linux. That might have been one of the other guys though.

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[–] stephen01king@piefed.zip 1 point 8 months ago

Yeah, that was caused by cosmic, but the issue he is the closest to blaming Valve and Linux for was the L4D one. The Helldiver one is literally just the game being buggy, but since Linus is new to it, he probably doesn't know that. At the very least, he didn't really try and blame Linux directly with that one.

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[–] ChairmanMeow@programming.dev 6 points 8 months ago

Linus didn't shit on Linux as a whole, come on. Last time he tried Pop was over a year ago, he figured something might've changed in the meantime. And he did research what could be causing the issues (and found a fix for L4D2), and did also mention that overall the system was intuitive, installing it was fairly simple and he enjoyed not having his data being sold. He also said that all his devices were plug-and-play, no driver downloading shenanigans required. But of course he is going to highlight the issues he runs into, it's kind of the point of the video to show that not all experiences with Linux are seamless, and you can get radically different results depending on your chosen distro.

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