This is so stupid. How would they even enforce it? Are they going to check everyone's chromosomes at each meeting?

Lots of trans women pass, and lots of cis lesbians can look a bit manly, so I can't imagine any practical way to enforce it. And a rule without enforcement is pointless.

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[–] 1 point 8 months ago (7 children)

You know what being misgendered actually does to trans people? I will give you a hint. It's mental AND physical. It subtly poisons every relationship they have with other people. It destroys their ability to find meaningful social connections. It causes gut, skin and inflammation problems. It literally makes them feel more pain and be less resilient to unrelated stressors. Over time this means endemic health problems or suicides.

What being excluded from "cis women only" spaces does to trans people is institutional. If a trans women uses a male restroom they risk assault. It's very common for trans women to be stalked to secondary locations once they leave a male bathroom. They still face prejudice and retaliation in female bathrooms but they are dramatically safer and there has been virtually no incidents of assaults by trans people using bathrooms on cis women. They might feel like they are in danger but that isn't founded on any real world data. They might share a bathroom space with a trans woman a few times over their lifetime but for a trans person having a safe place to use the bathroom is an every single day problem. When trans women are forced out of women's support spaces they become increased targets of rape and exploitation.

I guarantee you there aren't trans women knocking down the door to these transphobic lesbian spaces. This is a fucking nothingburger. Trans women face incredible safety problems in dating and I can tell you from experience they don't stay where they aren't made to feel welcome because it's not fucking safe for them to do so. The REASON trans advocates stop these clubs from making this exclusion law is not because they want to force themselves into spaces they on the whole don't really want to be - it's because it opens the door to use cases to destroy their ability to exist in public. It makes them unable to support themselves which forces more trans sisters in illegal activities and sex work.

Quite frankly these women can suck it up and be catty fucking bitches to trans women like they've always been in the past and deal with the inherent drama of that instead of trying to change laws that will bite them in their own asses one day when they are expelled from bathroom spaces or have the cops called because someone can't tell the difference between butch and trans.

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  • [+] -1 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (6 children)
  • [–] 2 points 8 months ago (5 children)

    The reality of the situation is this doesn't affect anybody who you count as friend or family so you just don't care. You project what you think is the norm but you don't know because it's not your monkey not your circus isn't it? You don't care where this leads because nobody you care about will die from it and when the trans people disappear from the world around you you'll be unaware or worse celebrate.

    I think I know when someone is a lost cause until something changes. Perhaps one day it will be someone you care about and then you'll have the insights you need. Until then.

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    Funny how the goalpost moves. It was "zero" before. If you want the actual portion that got proven as a hate crime in court findings :

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_killed_for_being_transgender

    Be aware that transness is often a hidden statistic with a lot of reporting of deaths not valuing that information making it difficult to track. It's common inside the trans community for people to disappear with news of their passing being hampered because reporting in press and statistics typically only feature deadnames and lists them by identifiers that only few people inside their communities recognize. Families actively bury evidence of trans people after they pass so there is a concerted effort inside communities to actually mark and make notes when someone dies.

    If you want the numbers on people assaulted or injured for being trans it's much, much higher.

    https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10110792/

    https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/press/ncvs-trans-press-release/

    The suicide attempt rate for young trans people sits around 72% of the population in places that pass bathroom bills compared to the baseline 40%.

    For adults the rate of successful suicides of trans people is between 14 to 22 times that of the general population depending on factors of what variety of trans they are.

    Add this to the fact all these "protections" for women aren't actually protections for all women. It is protections for only the most feminine presenting women. Cis women have been injured or traumatized by being run out of spaces supposedly for them. People have lost their sports careers or faced worklace discrimination because of this. It's basically leveraging people's discomfort with a minority they don't understand to roll back feminist wins of yesteryear. Certain parts of the fight are just bigots blinded to the fact they are shooting themselves in the foot but to a lot of the people pushing this narrative trans people may be how they are selling the poison but we are not the main prize to be won.

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