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Code Is Cheap Now. Software Isn’t (chrisgregori.dev)
submitted 10 months ago by to c/programming@programming.dev
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cross-posted from: https://lemmy.bestiver.se/post/856407

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[–] 13 points 10 months ago (8 children)

Not everyone has 100s of hours free time to sink into this and that skill

That's life, buddy. Nobody can learn everything, so communities rely on specialists who can master their craft. Would you rather your doctor have 100s of hours of study and practice, or a random person off the street with ChatGPT? If something is worth studying for 100s of hours, then there's more nuance to the skill than any layman or current AI system can capture in a few sentence prompt.

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  • [–] -5 points 10 months ago (7 children)

    What kind of nonsense comparison is that? Somewhat off topic, borderline straw man.

    People still have their job, better tools enable people to do more things in their free time. Some even switch professions later on, once they have enough experience. Lowering the bar (invest, skill, ...) is simply a good thing.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (6 children)

    I personally have spent those 100s (actually more like 1000s) of hours studying Software Engineering, and I was doing my best to give an example of how current AI tools are not a replacement for experience. Neither is having access to a sewing machine or blowtorch and hammer (you still need to know about knots and thread / metallurgy / the endless amount of techniques for using those tools).
    Software in particular is an extremely theoretical field, similar to medicine (thus my example with a doctor).
    ChatGPT is maybe marginally better than a simple web search when it comes to learning. There is simply no possible way to compress the decade of experience I have into a few hours of using an LLM. The usefulness of AI for me starts and ends at fancy auto-complete, and that literally only slightly speeds up my already fast typing speed. Getting a good result out of AI for coding requires so much prerequisite knowledge to ask the right questions, a complete novice is not even going to know what they should be asking for without going through those same 100s of hours of study.

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  • [–] -1 points 9 months ago (5 children)

    Without chatGPT I could not have repaired things where I simply threw the datasheet at it and got code to reprogram it, like for an BMS. I could not digitize data streams by sniffing I2C. I could not use computer vision to decode a display. I could not make control and data logging interfaces for machines, turning decade old shit into good-as-new just based on their serial interface. Etc. Etc.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (4 children)

    It sounds like you still can't.

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  • [–] -1 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    How blinded by your hate/rage are you that you blindly(!) dismiss the things I do (a random person you do not know) with the help of that tool? Disgusting MAGA level of "argument".

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (2 children)

    Hate or rage? That's absolutely silly. I'm a computer scientist and I value actual skill.

    I mean do a little thought experiment. If there was a dude who followed me around everywhere and I could always ask him for code-based solutions to things, and he gives them to me, am I coding? Have I actually done anything?

    You could argue that the system of he and I were accomplishing something together but the problem with that logic is that if you removed me from the system, as a middleman, you're left with someone who still did the work. In that particular system I add absolutely nothing, therefor I'm not actually a part that is of any real use.

    If the box is handing you the answers to things you don't know how to do then guess what - you still don't know how to do those things. Eventually you get into a position where you have a product that you can no longer properly understand, debug, or make any real use out of.

    I think the real tell here is how sensitive you are if anybody calls you out on your b******* and even the smallest way. Have a nice day :-).

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  • [–] 0 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    If you use a sewing machine to fix your clothes, did you even do anything? That is the level of argument we are at here. Absolutely ridiculous. It saved me so much time already. Sure I can also digest a datasheet, put all the registers down, glue logic, bla bla bla, but instead of wasting 10 hours I am already done with everything an hour later.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

    Well you've picked an absolutely terrible analogy, which makes sense given how sensitive you are about it.

    If you were able to talk to the sewing machine and tell it exactly what to do with the fabrics what patterns to follow and so forth--then no you haven't done s***.

    I sew my own clothes and costumes so I know this to be true. Sewing using a machine is no trivial thing. You have to understand the mechanics of the machine the patterns etc. You have to understand how to read a pattern or come up with one yourself and you have to implement it with the correct stitching the correct fabric and so forth.

    If you wanted to pick apart my analogy in an actual careful sense, you would have a situation where you have a person who understands how to use the sewing machine and you give them instructions. But again, in terms of the system you aren't providing any value. The person doing the sewing is. You would still be superfluous and you still wouldn't understand what's actually going on. Call yourself a manager, but don't call yourself a tailor or seamstress.

    But what you did is pick an object That is a regular tool and claim that it's doing the same job, which is preposterous.

    Our compilers already do massive amounts of syntax and semantic checking. Our linyers do the same. There's a ton of tools that don't involve articulating at a high level what you want and magically getting back your entire process.

    Sure, you're done an hour later. And you have no idea what the limitations of your system are. You have no idea what sort of bugs are hidden from your test. You have zero ability to comprehend what's actually going on inside if you don't actually understand the domain.

    What you are is a vibe code or by the sounds of it. Honestly I prefer the old school script kiddies because at least they were doing something themselves.

    Basically what you're doing is the same thing as me opening up CAD and then pretending that I'm an engineer. I'm not a f****** engineer. I didn't take the right training. I'm not licensed in the area. I can create a 3D model all day long. But that's literally all I can do.

    I think you need to understand your limitations the same way the rest of the world does.

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