300
Russian and Chinese Bots Fueling Online ‘Violence’ After Charlie Kirk Shooting (www.thedailybeast.com)
submitted 1 year ago by to c/fediverse_vs_disinfo@lemmy.dbzer0.com
84 comments fedilink hide all child comments
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] [S] 0 points 1 year ago* (6 children)

But accusing people who are critical of America's bipartisan support for genocide of just being a foreigner is a little too mask-off.

I had a feeling you would wildly misconstrue lol

I was and still am very welcoming of people who are critical of America's bipartisan support for genocide. I'm one of them. People who wanted to make the genocide ten times worse (and have now succeeded), by letting someone into power who wants to turn what was already a catastrophe into something much, much darker, probably the end of Gaza and maybe the end of the West Bank depending, I was opposed to.

People who were willing to sacrifice Gaza by letting Trump come into office, for whatever reasons of their own, and disguise it behind a tissue-thin veneer of care for Palestinians and accuse other people of some kind of wild weirdness any time someone calls them out on it, I was definitely opposed to. Also, not to mention sacrificing progress on the climate, safety for anyone inside the US who's not a citizen, free elections, all kinds of things which are now in horrible danger.

Anyway, this account clearly wasn't American and was still agitating tirelessly for a particular outcome in American politics which was guaranteed to make things much, much, much worse for Palestinians. If you want to say that they're not literally a bot, and I haven't proven that they're Russian, then sure. Fair. IDK why you would immediately react though by making excuses for this user or pretending that my complaint was something absolutely wholly different from what my complaint was, if you cared about Palestinians.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 6 child comments
    •
  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    Its not misconstruing to point out you original claim, Russian bots, isn't what you are trying to prove, foreign-funded pro-republican posters.

    But the notion that the poster is pro-republican is the core issue here.

    The purpose of screaming about ghoulish shit the dems do isn't to pretend the republicans won't do the same shit, its to pressure the dems to stop doing that shit so they have a shot in hell at winning. By the end of October, dem insiders were saying the protesters were electorally irrelevant and the kids would forget and go home and vote dem by November and people like you were demanding we pledge to vote dem unconditionally instead of helping pressure the dems to do the only thing that would have allowed them to win.

    Nothing you or I can say makes genocide, means testing, and rolling over for republicans/adopting their framing and policies popular among potential dem voters.

    Every time you say "well republicans also do x/y/z", you help the DNC maintain the delusion they can win on dogshit policy that only their donors like.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 5 child comments
    •
  • [–] [S] 1 point 1 year ago (4 children)

    So then you sort of implied that OBVIOUSLY I hadn't seen any Russian bots and was just squirming.

    So then I said, well, here's a poster who is pretty clearly a foreign influence operation of some kind, in my opinion, but you can draw your own conclusions.

    And then you said that OBVIOUSLY I'm just against anyone who is critical of America's bipartisan support for genocide, and the whole thing about the calculator and the actual point of my post was just a distraction I guess.

    When I addressed that you moved to saying OBVIOUSLY the purpose of this non American person "screaming about the ghoulish shit the dems do" is just to help the Democrats win the election by changing their messaging, because the DNC reads Lemmy I guess? And you know that that was this person's motivation?

    There is a pretty good video which talks about this argumentation strategy. It's never just "Hey show me an example of a Russian bot" "Here's an example, it doesn't completely fit what you asked for but it's what I've got" "Yeah that doesn't exactly fit, I thought you said Russian bots" "Tru dat" (fin). It always has to morph into some new argument in every message, and it always has to be part of a prepackaged talking point ("I'm just trying to help the Democrats" "Oh I guess you think ANYONE who's anti-genocide is a Russian bot" are both things I've seen a bunch of times before. The first one doesn't even apply here, since I think ostensibly we were talking about why this other person was airing these particular views, which you would have no idea about why they would say it, or what the "purpose" was. Anyway, and so on.)

    The running theme here is all these people who ostensibly want a frank exchange of ideas spend a lot more time making accusations than asking questions. Because why ask what you believe when they can tell you what you believe and make you correct them? And if you ever don't go to the trouble of correcting them, must be because they're right.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
    •
  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    I asked for a Russian bot. When what you gave me wasn't a bot and undetermined whether Russian, I didn't say "thats not a bot, you're wrong", I accepted what you actually meant, 'malicious foreigners, presumably paid, to post arguments and news that supports republicans by showing the dems actions and words' and responded accordingly.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
    •
  • [–] [S] 1 point 1 year ago* (2 children)

    I accepted what you actually meant

    and specifically and explicitly said

    , 'malicious foreigners, presumably paid, to post arguments and news that supports republicans by

    blaming literally everything happening anywhere in the world on Democrats and also never shutting up about it and refusing to engage with the objective fact that the Republicans would be catastrophically worse in literally every way

    ' and

    claimed I accuse anyone who opposes genocide of being a bot even though a quick search for 'I don't at all think' or 'just someone with a particular set of genuine opinions' will show me saying literally the exact opposite of that, and emphasizing the reasons why I thought this particular person was an influence operation which had not a lot to do with their opinions except in passing

    Fixed some parts for you. I hope there are still some Gazans alive by the time your grand strategy to fix American Israel policy comes back for the next round in the next election. I think it is more likely than not that they'll all be dead. Good job, Patrick, we saved Palestine.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •
  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    The people to your left accept republicans are worse, that is why we are trying to make the only alternative stop doing the things that put republicans in power. You refuse to engage with the fact that "this one election is too import, we have to shut up and pretend this electorally moronic strategy of being 99% republicans can win." is how we keep getting republicans.

    The only way we could have stopped the genocide in Gaza was to stop the dems from bombing them while telling their own base to eat shit, beating the politically activated college students they depend on for a ground game, and maintaining and expanding ICE so they wouldn't lose.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
    •